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Old 08-11-2017, 02:27 PM
 
2,350 posts, read 4,325,393 times
Reputation: 2823

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post

I shudder to think of all the additional side effects I'd have with another layer of medications...food for thought...
Even though you may have tried supplements before there are probably many other supplements to try first before adding another ineffective prescription.

Hawthorn capsules did nothing for me but I had wonderful results using Dr. Christopher's Hawthorn Berry Heart syrup. This is an amazing product and my number one supplement.

Grape seed extract and pycnogenol have been reported to have beneficial effects on bp. MegaNatural-BP is the one specific patented grape seed extract that has been medically studied for bp.

"GSE significantly reduced systolic BP (SBP) by 56%(P=0012)"

http://waterhouse.ucdavis.edu/public...park-choy-2015

Or how about something with no side effects like pomegranate juice?

"A very recent study included 21 hypertensive patients (aged
30-67 years) [23]. These were assigned to receive either PJ
(150 ml/day in a single occasion between lunch and dinner; n
= 11) or the same amount of water (n = 10) for a period of 2
weeks. PJ consumption was associated with significant reductions
in systolic BP (p=0.002)..."


http://hsrc.himmelfarb.gwu.edu/cgi/v...dicine_facpubs

It is doubtful that beta blockers will be significantly helpful.

"In comparison with other antihypertensive drugs, the effect of beta-blockers is less than optimum, with a raised risk of stroke," wrote Lars Hjalmar Lindholm, M.D., and colleagues at Umea University Hospital and University Hospital in Goteborg,"

Beta-Blockers Called Poor Choice for Hypertension | Medpage Today
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:12 PM
 
3,074 posts, read 1,032,967 times
Reputation: 3547
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
Comments re PhantomPilot posting. Thanks for your observations!

My research has shown that "hot reactors" are born that way -- not made that way by outside forces. It's an integral part of our emotional make-up. Even when I am "calm" my normal BP is something like 158/79 -- and that's with my current BP meds. Not too effective. So, even at idle speed, my motor runs fast.

So, when I said my BP measurements were pretty normal after yoga/meditation, the readings are still above the "normal" parameters set by the medical profession.

But, I do wonder, if maybe not all of us fit into the 120 systolic reading box dictated by the heath professionals?? Isn't it expected that as we age (and I'm a senior), our veins/arteries stiffen (just like our joints!) to a certain degree?

I shudder to think of all the additional side effects I'd have with another layer of medications...food for thought...
I understand what you're trying to say but I think its mistaken to consider that pressure benignly normal.

That kind of resting systolic BP is a prescription for a stroke or MI; think what your spikes must be.

It is true that the arteries do stiffen with age, and you're correct that because of this seniors are expected to have higher BP and thus not to fit in the 120/80 guideline. Arterial stiffness is mostly due to loss of elasticity and/or atherosclerosis, but what you describe is called "isolated systolic hypertension", and needs to be better controlled. You should aim to get that systolic under 150.

If I were you I'd consult with your cardiologist to work this up again and see what else can be done about this pressure.
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Old 08-21-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
4,990 posts, read 9,053,008 times
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Now on beta blocker, and still on a low dose of lisinopril. No more HCTZ and glad to be off that...the beta blocker -- it makes makes me feel calmer, less over-reaction to stress. If it lowers the BP to normal levels, that will be good.

Appreciate all your feed-back and suggestions.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,333 posts, read 8,543,633 times
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I take losartan/hctz. When I just took losartan I was 140+/90, occasionally a little lower. Doc suggested i take 12.5mg hctz. that pill lowered my upper number to the 120s so I think I'll be taking it but am curious about the side effects. I sweat a lot with exercise and the fact im in texas. i hope this pill won't cause problems. i do get dizziness at times.

you might want to try losartan. lisonopril i had a bad reaction to.
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Old 08-22-2017, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,333 posts, read 8,543,633 times
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I just want to say that even with medication my bp was hardly 120/80. Maybe that magic number can't be achieved by everyone. I don't want any higher doses to achieve control , that leave me with unpleasant side effects.

Mind you, that my BMI now is 21.4%, I'm active, and I'm only 42. HBP runs in my family and it's always high. 140/90 was far better than it was when I was untreated.
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Old 08-22-2017, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
4,990 posts, read 9,053,008 times
Reputation: 9103
^^^^

Yep, same here...I'd be happy with being consistently 140/75 or so...don't want to take a boatload of meds to force the BP down to a certain number...with all the possible side effects...

The excessive sweating was the main reason I wanted off the HCTZ...it got tiresome and we're also hot & humid in coastal NC in the summer...I'd be soaked, hair wringing wet, when no one else was sweating...seems this is not an uncommon side effect.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,333 posts, read 8,543,633 times
Reputation: 11859
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
^^^^

Yep, same here...I'd be happy with being consistently 140/75 or so...don't want to take a boatload of meds to force the BP down to a certain number...with all the possible side effects...

The excessive sweating was the main reason I wanted off the HCTZ...it got tiresome and we're also hot & humid in coastal NC in the summer...I'd be soaked, hair wringing wet, when no one else was sweating...seems this is not an uncommon side effect.
Ok yeah it's hard for me to say if it's the med or the Texas heat that's the source of the sweating, lol, thanks. I don't care for the random dizziness but other than that it's been ok for me all things considered. It's been a real battle controlling my pressure. At higher doses the side effects can be really bad so I'm just gonna be happy with the readings I have now. Good luck
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, CA
14,415 posts, read 4,363,855 times
Reputation: 9928
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
I just want to say that even with medication my bp was hardly 120/80. Maybe that magic number can't be achieved by everyone. I don't want any higher doses to achieve control , that leave me with unpleasant side effects.

Mind you, that my BMI now is 21.4%, I'm active, and I'm only 42. HBP runs in my family and it's always high. 140/90 was far better than it was when I was untreated.

That magic number is unrealistic and where that came from is probably from pharma engineers.

One reading I had when I was in my 40's was 130/80 and even on a few BP meds, it goes up and down. So much FEAR out there to get to that magic number...B.S.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:02 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
6,913 posts, read 5,228,553 times
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I'd like to hear more from people on beta blockers about heart rates.

I was just switched from edarbyclor back to valsartan + metoprolol ER 50mg. Was taking valsartan alone prior to 4 months ago, but it wasn't enough.

My biggest concern about metoprolol is that after taking for 2 days, my heart rate is already dipping into the high 40s at times. My pharmacist says that low heart rate is nothing to worry about unless you have symptoms like feeling faint. Will speak to my regular doc later this week about it. But opinions on this topic seem to be all over the map. I've read online warnings that beta blockers can slow your heart to levels that risk stopping it. Have no idea how much validity they have, but my fear is that my heart could slow during sleep enough to turn out the lights....if you know what I mean.

What say those of you with long experience with this drug?

(This getting old thing is such a pain....no wonder old people seemed so grumpy when I was young! )
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:27 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
8,625 posts, read 5,763,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
I'd like to hear more from people on beta blockers about heart rates.

I was just switched from edarbyclor back to valsartan + metoprolol ER 50mg. Was taking valsartan alone prior to 4 months ago, but it wasn't enough.

My biggest concern about metoprolol is that after taking for 2 days, my heart rate is already dipping into the high 40s at times. My pharmacist says that low heart rate is nothing to worry about unless you have symptoms like feeling faint. Will speak to my regular doc later this week about it. But opinions on this topic seem to be all over the map. I've read online warnings that beta blockers can slow your heart to levels that risk stopping it. Have no idea how much validity they have, but my fear is that my heart could slow during sleep enough to turn out the lights....if you know what I mean.

What say those of you with long experience with this drug?

(This getting old thing is such a pain....no wonder old people seemed so grumpy when I was young! )
I've taken a beta blocker ( metoprolol) for many years, began taking ig in 2001 after a nonstop episode of supraventricular tachycardia( with a sustained heart rate a little over 200) landed me in the ER where they stopped it ( or at least slowed it down ) with an adenosine IV. I'd had episodes of SVT since I was a teenager but they were few and far between and had always stopped on their own after a few minutes before this last episode. I was informed that unless I submitted to a cardiac ablation to "cure" the SVT I would have to take the beta blocker to control it for the rest of my life. I refused the ablation and opted for the metoprolol.

I took 100 mg of metoprolol succinate ( generic for Toprol XL) per day for a number of years, then begged and pleaded with the doc to cut it back to 50mg/day, which he did, but added a calcium channel blocker to control my blood pressure better, as well as the SVT. I recall being tired as a side effect of the beta blocker, and I know it slowed my heart rate, but I wasn't aware of the heart rate being too low. It did a great job at keeping the SVT at bay, I had very few breakthrough tachycardic episodes- unless I forgot to take the meds. The same meds kept my blood pressure under control.

Fast forward about 14 yrs, on those same meds, I had another sudden episode of tachycardia, assumed it was SVT, after several hours when it wouldn't stop I went to the ER, where they caught about the last 15-20 minutes of the episode on an EKG before it slowed down and resumed a normal sinus rhythm. They all told me what they saw on that EKG was atrial flutter, which they group in with a-fib. I assumed they'd send me home, but they insisted I be admitted to the telemetry unit and see a cardiologist, so that is what happened.

The cardiologist I saw changed two of the medications I was taking, the metoprolol succinate ( long acting) to metoprolol tartrate ( shorter acting, taken twice a day, still 50 mg/day), and the losartan hctz to plain losartan, he said I didn't need a diuretic. He also said the shorter acting metoprolol was more effective in controlling the heart rate than the longer acting as the metoprolol succinate taken once a day tendef to "peter out" after 12 hours.

I noticed the metoprolol tartrate ( I took 1/2 of a 50 mg tab twice daily) had more of an effect on my heart rate than the metoprolol ER had, and there were times about an hour or two after I took it it did dip into the high 40's, but it didn't stay there. It also made me feel somewhat tired, but I got used to it within a few weeks. I believe when I checked my heart rate after that few weeks it was often in the high 50's, but I was also taking a calcium channel blocker ( a drug called Matzim LA, which is a substitute generic for Cardizem LA), which also acts to slow the heart rate, so I imagine there was a combined effect of those two drugs.

I continued on that combination for over a year, and noticed after I got a watch that tracked my heart rate that the resting heart rate would dip into the 40's, even the 30's at times, even during the day, and I'd feel pretty wonky at times. Again, those heart rates wouldn't stay there, they would go back into the 50's, 60's with activity.

I discussed this low heart rate with the cardiologist during a visit, and he noted that my blood pressure taken at the office was also low, he assumed this was due to the combination of the metoprolol and calcium channel blocker, and instructed me to stop taking the calcium channel blocker. He informed me that my heart rate would go up, perhaps I'd need more metoprolol to control the tachycardia, and to let him know if I needed more.

Well, the slow resting heart rate continued, not every day but pretty often, and after a couple more months I started having frequent episodes of what turned out to be more SVT and long runs of PVC bigeminy. Interestingly enough, my heart rate didn't go that low when I was having the arrthymias, but it would on a "good day"when I wasn't having any. These went on for several months till I finally cried uncle and contacted the cardiologists office.

The cardiologist increased the dose of metoprolol tartrate from 50 mg/day to 150 mg/day, with the option of increasing even further to 200 mg/day to suppress these arrthymias, and while I was leary of taking more beta blocker with the low heart rate I'd had at 50 mg/day, but I was so miserable with the arrthymias I'd have eaten cow patties at that point if that would get rid of them.

So it's now been about two months since I've been on 150 mg/day ( that's 75 mg in two doses) of metoprolol, and I definitely felt the side effects-feeling basically like I spent my day slogging through mud, no energy and low heart rate that would go as low as the low 30's, and on occasion into the 20's , but again it would climb back up into the 50's, 60's with sustained activity, although it seems to hang out in the 40's frequently at rest. I've gotten more used to the meds, I think, and interestingly enough don't feel all that bad even witb the low heart rate. I've checked my blood pressure during those low heart rates and it's not low, and the pulse oximeter (guess we're a family of techy nerd hypochondriacs here, LOL) shows O2 levels i the high 90's, so I have to assume even with the low heart rate the perfusion is ok. And even with some side effects, I still feel so much better with the SVT and other miseries more or less under control, and know they'd come right back without the meds (there is some breakthrough even with it), I'm willing to put up with some side effects. I will get the cardiologist's take on the low heart rate at my next visit, however.

It's a good idea, as you have mentioned, to discuss your low heart rate on the beta blockers with your doctor, he/she should know they're occurring, and can either reassure you that this is harmless, or can adjust your medication, whatever is indicated.
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