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Old 11-19-2017, 11:31 AM
 
4,967 posts, read 10,997,043 times
Reputation: 11767

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Stem Cells/PRP are coming more and more and the future for so many suffering and those even done the surgeries and still suffer. Even some of the ortho doctors have jumped on these for their patients. For those with the money it's not an issue.
Likely will be coming in the FUTURE if efficacy can be demonstrated and procedure made cost effective...

"In conclusion, stem cell therapy may not become a standard treatment for knee OA till the end of the decade due to various aspects regarding the clinical safety (e.g., risk of complications after surgery, compatibility of donor stem cells) and the affordability of this treatment for the general public. Moreover, there is still no sufficient amount of clinical data on the effectiveness of stem cell therapy when compared with pharmacological treatments for this particular disease"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178263/

Stem cell treatment is NOT the same as PRP and Stem cells hold much more promise than PRP...

Yes some ortho doctors have "jumped on board" for PRP injections....safe...patient's want them...do no harm...but the main reason, cha ching...its all profit since insurance doesn't cover them.

As for your bolded part, hard to decipher what you were trying to say there but if you think folks that have had failed joint replacements would ever be candidates for PRP or Stem cell injections think again..

Once a joint has been "replaced" there is no going back and there will NEVER be a time in the future where Stem cells could help a painful total joint replacement

 
Old 11-19-2017, 03:07 PM
 
5,335 posts, read 3,382,401 times
Reputation: 13395
I know someone who had stem cell injections in both knees about 3 months ago. She feels no change or improvement. But I think the improvement can happen up until a year after the injections? (not sure)

Haven't read this entire thread yet. But the aspiration of pulling the stem cells from another place on the body and then injecting in knees - she said it was painful.

I have a feeling it will not cause an improvement, but I could be wrong. She said the procedure was available to her only if she has cartilage remaining in her knees - the procedure is not for people who have no cartilage left and have bone rubbing on bone.
 
Old 11-19-2017, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Southern California
23,158 posts, read 8,035,587 times
Reputation: 15137
I have bones rubbing and I still have cartlidge...and many people STOP due to the costs of injections. The wealthy can do as many injections that will work for them but we with less funds cannot.

Insurance pays for the SynVisc and Cortisone injections which OFTEN don't do much at all if anything and cortisone does damage.

Matisse, how many times did your friend go for injections?
 
Old 11-19-2017, 03:29 PM
 
5,151 posts, read 3,260,839 times
Reputation: 6266
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I know someone who had stem cell injections in both knees about 3 months ago. She feels no change or improvement. But I think the improvement can happen up until a year after the injections? (not sure)

Haven't read this entire thread yet. But the aspiration of pulling the stem cells from another place on the body and then injecting in knees - she said it was painful.

I have a feeling it will not cause an improvement, but I could be wrong. She said the procedure was available to her only if she has cartilage remaining in her knees - the procedure is not for people who have no cartilage left and have bone rubbing on bone.
Obviously using your own stem cells is best way to go since your body won't reject them, but I also read that as you age your stem cells are also aging and they're not as good as say when you were younger. So people in their 60's, 70's or 80's using their own stem cells might see very little to no effect.

Who knows what will happen in the future, but being a researcher myself, the best/better method would be to remove some stem cells from your body while you're still young in your 20's and 30's and then freeze the stems cells down in liquid nitrogen, so in the future (if you need them), they can be used and have a much better chance of helping.

Sorry jaminhealth, you should have frozen down your stem cells 50 years ago, if you wanted them to work the best in the present.

Now I just need to turn this into a viable business model and become a billionaire!

Heck people already pay to have their umbilical cord blood stem cells from their child frozen and stored for a rainy day.
 
Old 11-19-2017, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Southern California
23,158 posts, read 8,035,587 times
Reputation: 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
Obviously using your own stem cells is best way to go since your body won't reject them, but I also read that as you age your stem cells are also aging and not as good as say when you were younger. So people in their 60's, 70's or 80's using their own stem cells might see very little to no effect.

Who knows what will happen in the future, but being a researcher myself, the best/better method would be to remove some stem cells from your body while you're still young in your 20's and 30's and then freeze the stems cells down in liquid nitrogen, so in the future (if you need them), they can be used and have a much better chance of helping.

Sorry jaminhealth, you should have frozen down your stem cells 50 years ago, if you wanted them to work the best in the present.

Now I just need to turn this into a viable business model and become a billionaire!

Heck people already pay to have their umbilical cord blood stem cells from their child frozen and stored for a rainy day.
If I only knew when I was young I'd be dealing with this D** arthritis who knows. None of us knows what is ahead of us in our aging. For the older people who do the stem cells, they probably need MORE and then more money. If we cured too many, what would a lot of surgeons have to do?

Then too, PRP are half the cost of Stem Cells and many do benefit, but they are still pricey. The SynVisc that do nothing and insurance covered are billed very high to Medicare, it's a crime about our system in many ways.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 11-19-2017 at 04:18 PM..
 
Old 11-19-2017, 04:01 PM
 
5,151 posts, read 3,260,839 times
Reputation: 6266
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
If I only knew when I was young I'd be dealing with this D** arthritis who knows. None of us knows what is ahead of us in our aging. For the older people who do the stem cells, they probably need MORE and then more money. If we cured too many, what would a lot of surgeons have to do?
No doubt, that is one of the limiting factors as you age, so my fictitious business model is like an insurance policy, where you don't necessarily want to use your stored stem cells, but you don't know what will happen to you down the road, but if you do need them, they are there and there's a "ton" of them and they are from a time when you were much younger.

Lets say I charge $10 a month to store your cells, or $120 a year and they end up being stored for 50 or 60 years, that's only $6,000 or $7,200 during your lifetime, which I think is a bargain. People waste $10 a month on useless things all the time. Now the cost to have the stem cells removed while you are still young, I'm not sure, since that's not my field, but it would of course be a one time fee.

As for surgeons, there will always be a need, especially emergency room surgeons or transplant surgeons or neurosurgeons or cardiovascular surgeons, people will continue to have all types of surgeries way into the future, for sure. And even orthopedic surgeons will still most definitely be needed since people, young and old, break arms, legs, hands, feet, backs, or name the bone all the time!

Last edited by cjseliga; 11-19-2017 at 04:11 PM..
 
Old 11-19-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Southern California
23,158 posts, read 8,035,587 times
Reputation: 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
No doubt, that is one of the limiting factors as you age, so my fictitious business model is like an insurance policy, where you don't necessarily want to use your stored stem cells, but you don't know what will happen to you down the road, but if you do need them, they are there and there's a "ton" of them and they are from a time when you were much younger.

Lets say I charge $10 a month to store your cells, or $120 a year and they end up being stored for 50 or 60 years, that's only $6,000 or $7,200 during your lifetime, which I think is a bargain. People waste $10 a month on useless things all the time. Now the cost to have the stem cells removed while you are still young, I'm not sure, since that's not my field, but it would of course be a one time fee.

As for surgeons, there will always be a need, especially emergency room surgeons or transplant surgeons or neurosurgeons or cardiovascular surgeons, people will continue to have all types of surgeries way into the future, for sure. And even orthopedic surgeons will still most definitely be needed since people, young and old, break arms, legs, hands, feet, backs, or name the bone all the time!
Oh for sure there will always be a need for surgeons but maybe less if one could avoid replacements. One person told me she heard the surgeon who did my hip did assembly line surgeries almost daily...he did so many in a week.

Wonder how the monks/nuns/priests are with arthritis since they sit around a lot and kneel a lot. They don't do all the fast hard work most people do. Just entered my mind.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 11-19-2017 at 04:56 PM..
 
Old 11-19-2017, 10:22 PM
 
5,335 posts, read 3,382,401 times
Reputation: 13395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post

Matisse, how many times did your friend go for injections?
just one time, I think.
 
Old 11-20-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Southern California
23,158 posts, read 8,035,587 times
Reputation: 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
just one time, I think.
Even with the HA injections (SynVisc etc) people are told to go for 3 sessions of injections of this HA solution and these don't work for MOST I'd bet, didn't for me. And insurance pays $1000's for this stuff..

Dr. Darrow says people quit too soon and often need more PRP/Stem Cells...but for cost they quit and again unless they have the MONEY.

Then in desperation do the replacements and then a new set of issues to deal with.
 
Old 03-05-2018, 11:18 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,245 posts, read 8,033,606 times
Reputation: 8900
I stumbled upon this thread trying to research stem cell therapy vs a hip replacement. I just found out my hip is a mess and I need to get it replaced. The doctor that will be doing the hip replacement also offered up a stem cell therapy alternative, just not in his office. I have done my research and have found nothing to convince me to go the stem cell route. In fact after reading through this entire thread I am now 100% on board with going through with the surgery. I do have some anecdotal evidence that stem cell and PRP may work but it is from one person in my office. To me that isn't nearly enough to get on board with it. Also, why would I pay three to four thousand dollars for something that hasn't been proven to work when I can get a full hip replacement for almost no out of pocket cost to me and has a remarkable success history especially compared to stem cell. If I had endless amounts of cash to experiment I might be inclined to give stem cell a try or if stem cell had a solid record of working for the majority of cases I may have given it a chance. I have unsuccessfully used alternative medicine in the past and based on my experience there is a reason it is alternative.
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