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Old 09-07-2017, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
13,437 posts, read 5,321,864 times
Reputation: 7015

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubygreta View Post
It has been thoroughly been debunked. Even some prominent YouTube vegans thinks it's garbage.

Yes, there are bad practices. But do you think this guy was going to show you the good practices?

And there is no health reason to be a vegan. None. Nada.
You are wrong about that.

My BIL is on a vegan diet on his doctor's suggestion. He had a prostatectomy, and meat/dairy are known to increase PSA counts.

5: Eat Less Meat and Cut Out Fat - 5 Ways to Lower Your PSA Count | HowStuffWorks
Foods to Avoid for Prostate Health
Well-done red meat linked to aggressive prostate cancer - CNN
Prostate Cancer Pictures: Anatomy Diagrams, PSA Tests, Myths, and More
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica, CA
8,289 posts, read 2,724,880 times
Reputation: 6315
I have compassion for animals and would not harm a domestic animal BUT cows are not family pets and were brought to us for food. Although I saw a tv program where families got very attached to their cows but had to get food for their families.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:10 PM
 
141 posts, read 37,772 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I have compassion for animals and would not harm a domestic animal BUT cows are not family pets and were brought to us for food. Although I saw a tv program where families got very attached to their cows but had to get food for their families.
"Brought" to us? Oh, you mean by the diety. Just an excuse.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:16 PM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
1,805 posts, read 1,320,135 times
Reputation: 2155
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
The issue is the suffering of animals. Of course, if you don't care about that, there's little more to be said.
You are confusing health and morals. Two distinct things.

The documentary has been in the news for a while and it preaches several falsehoods.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...iew-vegan-diet
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:21 PM
 
6,767 posts, read 11,287,787 times
Reputation: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by city living View Post
Is that the one where eating meat magically causes all kinds of health ailments like diabetes and cancer?

Because my coworker wanted to know why diabetes is so prevalent in countries where many people are vegetarian and do not eat tons of animal products. (Like her home country.)
Yup.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:22 PM
 
6,767 posts, read 11,287,787 times
Reputation: 2564
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I have compassion for animals and would not harm a domestic animal BUT cows are not family pets and were brought to us for food. Although I saw a tv program where families got very attached to their cows but had to get food for their families.
In some parts of the world, they are.
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:16 PM
 
2,720 posts, read 2,244,813 times
Reputation: 3664
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
I think everyone should aim to just eat real food, not processed crap.


Enough said.
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Back where I started. Who knew?
1,071 posts, read 1,235,433 times
Reputation: 1381
After seeing the documentary, I've been vegan-ish for 6 weeks. I happened to be laying up and recovering from a hysterectomy when I discovered this gem. I was so repulsed, I thought, "hey, why not?" My takeaway from this experience is to be mindful of what I put in my diet. I've learned that there are some delicious non-meat alternatives that can be consumed in place of meat. I've learned that I'm addicted to butter, not cheese like most people who try this way of eating. I've learned that junk comes in all diets and they are somewhat similar in appearance; high in carbs, low in nutrition and high in fat. After the 4th week, I promised myself a juicy steak which is my meat of preference. When I ate the steak it was good but at that point, chewing on meat had lost it allure. The next day I went back to vegan.

I'm six weeks in now and I can see that I need to take in more greens and complex carbs and less quick carbs. I didn't do it to be kind to animals but to be kinder to my body. I just started reading, "How Not To Die" by Dr. Michael Greger and his research is motivating me to continue on into this journey of what to put into my body. I'm not saying that I don't ever intend to eat meat again but humans eat way too much of it. When I was waiting on that steak in week 4. You'd of thought it was a Christmas meal with how much I was anticipating it. If you're not excited to be having steak for dinner; you're probably eating way too much meat. I also started to wonder if I would've needed to have a hysterectomy if I didn't consume so much dairy products in the past 20 years; designer coffees, FDA recommended dairy to include yogurt...Then I think about how many companies are invested into how much stuff we can cram into our pie-holes. I'm at the point now where I'm adding more beans, nuts and grains to my diet which is the diet of my ancestors. I'm keeping the butter and a couple of occasional eggs and maybe meat only when I crave it and not as a daily staple.

Last edited by MAXIALE02; 09-07-2017 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,015 posts, read 3,915,252 times
Reputation: 12321
Here's my take, as someone who has gone back and forth between vegan and ovo-vegetarian for nearly 30 years (until very recently, but more on that in a minute): the documentary is crap. There is no diet that is a golden ticket to better health or the ideal weight, aside from cutting junk food, and there is no such thing as a cruelty-free diet.

About me. For a while now, I've been dealing with debilitating IBS flare-ups. To the point where no matter what I ate, I would've doubled-over in pains almost as bad as labor contractions. I had been losing muscle from eating less and less, and did not have the strength to work out anymore. I work right across the street from a hospital, so my coworkers made me go. I did so with the proclamation that the first person who suggests fiber and water will be politely told "Get bent"; with all of the legumes, veggies, and whole grains I Hoover down on a daily basis, it is damn near impossible to eat more fiber.

Anyway, after a thorough exam and a long chat about my eating habits, the doctor laid it on the line that I need to start getting calories and protein from some more sources, because my body is no longer tolerating how I eat. I cried. I dry-heaved at the thought of it. But health must come before ideology. I started by replacing my daily oatmeal or tofu scramble with eggs for breakfast, and stopped getting raging stomachaches after I ate. Then I cut back on the grains and starting eating some fish in its place. During that first attempt, after muscling past the gag reflex, tears welled in my eyes because, for the first time in years, I felt so nourished after I ate.

And of course I felt guilty and weak-willed. But I happened to be reading a book about the history of shaman and animism, and one of the chapters discussed the relationship between a particular indigenous tribe and the salmon they relied on for food. I won't get into the whole thing, but they respected the "nonhuman personhood" of salmon, while consuming them with thankfulness for their nourishment. I know, I know, but it helped me start to reconcile/rationalize having a dead creature in my mouth. It's been almost a month now, and my stomach has been feeling better. I'm back in the gym and regaining lost muscle, and just feeling better all around. I still eat veg'n meals a few days per week, but never for a whole day anymore.

TL;DR. Opinions are like ***holes. Do what works for you, until it doesn't work for you anymore.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
277 posts, read 52,245 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Here's my take, as someone who has gone back and forth between vegan and ovo-vegetarian for nearly 30 years (until very recently, but more on that in a minute): the documentary is crap. There is no diet that is a golden ticket to better health or the ideal weight, aside from cutting junk food, and there is no such thing as a cruelty-free diet.
I agree with you 100% on this! I was strict vegan for 6.5 years and am now lacto ovo vegetarian for the last three months. I felt the same as an omni, LO vegetarian, and vegan, because I was mindful of the way I ate and lived with each style. I did however, encounter health issues as a vegan, but under circumstances that were not caused by being vegan. Nevertheless, I do feel a sort of relief and sense of nourishment that was lacking when I was fully vegan, even though I don't eat a ton of dairy or eggs. I'm intolerant to both dairy and vegan cheese lol. It was a lot of work to avoid every scrape of animal ingredient. For example, many restaurants and bakeries make bread that would otherwise be vegan with the exception of honey, so I had to avoid those. I made my own bread, but don't tell me that isn't work lol. I did it at least monthly, made several loaves of bread. I made a lot of my own staples because I don't live in a hugely vegan friendly city with a lot of products. I made my own vegan mayo for a long time until Just Mayo came on the scene. I made fermented cashew based "cream cheese". I grew and still grow many of my own vegetables in my garden. Beyond food, I am still mindful of not buying leather, suede, etc, but I have backed off on 100% pure adherence because it's just impossible to live a cruelty free life. I take thyroid meds I've been on for 29 years. Should I stop those because they aren't vegan? I ate a strict whole foods no oil vegan diet for the first two years and it didn't cure my thyroid problems (and I didn't expect it to). I did however end up with a bmi in the 14 range and severe osteoporosis that finally required that I stop ignoring it and get help. And that help required the use of animals in the testing of the drug I am on and the DXA scans I have had. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Even when I was a vegan and animal rights activist to boot (I leafleted for Vegan Outreach among other things), deep down I felt there was a whole lot of vegan propaganda and stretching and distorting of truth. There are many grey areas even in the animal rights movement that are often shoved under the rug and ignored (pets aren't exploitation of animals too? Forcing your carnivorous cat to eat vegan so you can hang on to the vegan label?). I left veganism for a number of reasons, but one was I finally saw myself becoming way too religious/cult like in my beliefs, shutting others off who didn't believe the way I did. I don't believe there is only one truth and one way of living and believing and eating etc. I don't believe that omnis or anyone who isn't vegan lacks compassion for animals or doesn't care. I have also taken the time to actually visit two local farms (egg and dairy) and learn about the whole process because I don't take what I put into my mouth lightly. People are more candid than we give them credit for. And the farms I visited were not so horrible. In fact some of the farm animals were very healthy and happy in the way they played and the interest they took in each other and humans. Their health was taken very seriously. Granted these were small local farms, not the large industrial ones. But I was also well aware of details like no male chickens on the pasture raised chicken egg farm I visited. It wasn't all good or bad, all black or white. There was not rampant abuse of the animals that were there, and some of them were fairly old too.

I just shared in another thread that my great grandma lived to be 105. She was a meat eater her entire life, though she probably didn't eat a ton because she didn't have much money. She used to make us kids spam or meatloaf and potatoes for dinner when we visited. She was sharp as a tack until she reached 100, then went into a nursing home. My Mom tried to eat all vegan for over eight months and I witnessed her lose almost half her hair in that time period. She is also gluten free and can not have nuts/seeds due to bouts of diverticulitis, but I had her take a vegan DHA and ground flaxseed, but it still wasn't enough. She went back to meat and is doing much better. I was terrible to her for a long time for that, angry at her. Accused her of not trying hard enough, or doing it all wrong. Ironically I feel like I am more compassionate towards others and myself having relaxed my own rules and where I draw the line as a vegetarian. I no longer go around trying to promote it either. I'm one of the former vegans who went vegan for ethical reasons but did not feel being vegan was healthier than being an omni or vegetarian. My ethical beliefs have shifted over time, maybe influenced by health issues (mental as well as physical). Call me selfish or the worst kind of person (because I "know" about the "facts" presented to me about the animal industry), or accuse me of never having been a "true vegan". I have heard it all before. I have nothing against vegans. I know people who have been vegan for decades and are healthy. Just saying it's not the only or best way for everyone.
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