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Old 07-16-2018, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,494 posts, read 26,089,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Quote:
Renata Albrecht, MD, who heads the FDA's Division of Special Pathogen and Transplant Products, estimates that spontaneous ruptures occur in about one in 100,000 people. The agency says taking the drugs appears to triple or quadruple the risk.
Even at quadruple the risk, 4 in 100,000 is not "common".
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,904 posts, read 32,658,014 times
Reputation: 57027
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Even at quadruple the risk, 4 in 100,000 is not "common".
I never said it was common. What I said is that the FDA gave these drugs it's HIGHEST AND MOST SEVERE notification/warning status - for a reason. The FDA - not me, not anyone else on this thread but the Federal Drug Administration states on it's very stern warnings to physicians in 2016 that these drugs should NOT BE USED unless they are the only option left, because the side effects can be life threatening.

Now as you and I both know, tendonitis or ruptured tendons don't kill people. But you know what does? Heart valve damage. You know what makes life just about unbearable to many people? Neuropathy. These are two other serious side effects, in addition to the tendon issues, that can be caused by this family of drugs. I have personally known people whose heart valves were damaged or who had permanent neuropathy from these drugs.

More from the FDA - I really encourage anyone who is seriously interested in this topic to read the full warning from the FDA (this is just a portion of the warning sent out to physicians in 2016 as well as all pharmacists - the FDA's strongest type of warning, which also includes the requirement that the pharmacist and physician go over the potential side effects in detail and in person with the patient):

Quote:
The labels of fluoroquinolone medicines already have a Boxed Warning for tendinitis, tendon rupture, and worsening of myasthenia gravis. The labels also include warnings about the risks of peripheral neuropathy and central nervous system effects. Other serious risks associated with fluoroquinolones are described in the labels, such as cardiac, dermatologic, and hypersensitivity reactions. After FDAs 2013 review that led to the additional warning that peripheral neuropathy may be irreversible, FDA evaluated post-marketing reports* of apparently healthy patients who experienced disabling and potentially permanent side effects involving two or more body systems after being treated with a systemic fluoroquinolone (see Data Summary). We evaluated only reports submitted to FDA, so there are likely additional cases of which we are unaware. The side effects occurred within hours to weeks after starting the fluoroquinolone, and at the time we received the reports, the side effects had continued for an average of 14 months to as long as 9 years after stopping the medicines. Several cases reported that some side effects stopped or improved after discontinuation of the medicine; others reported the side effects worsened or continued.
https://fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm511530.htm

This is above and beyond typical risks AND warnings on most drugs.
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Old 07-16-2018, 10:17 PM
 
575 posts, read 140,979 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Even at quadruple the risk, 4 in 100,000 is not "common".
Do you want to be that 4 in 100,000? Not me. You take it. And in the proccess of drs handing out that drug like its candy, even when told not to by the FDA, they give themselves a bad name. And you wonder why many of us dont trust drs? Why should we?
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,494 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
Do you want to be that 4 in 100,000? Not me. You take it. And in the proccess of drs handing out that drug like its candy, even when told not to by the FDA, they give themselves a bad name. And you wonder why many of us dont trust drs? Why should we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
Do you want to be that 4 in 100,000? Not me. You take it. And in the proccess of drs handing out that drug like its candy, even when told not to by the FDA, they give themselves a bad name. And you wonder why many of us dont trust drs? Why should we?
It's a matter of perspective. The odds of dying in a motor vehicle crash in my state are 1 in 8475. I am not going to quit riding in a motor vehicle.

That being said, no, doctors should not hand the quinolones out like candy.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,904 posts, read 32,658,014 times
Reputation: 57027
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

That being said, no, doctors should not hand the quinolones out like candy.
Doctors should follow the FDA directives for these potentially devastating drugs, which are the highest level of warning short of pulling a drug from the market, that the FDA issues. And patients should read up on this and question their doctors about any prescription and possible options, especially since the FDA says even with something as serious as anthrax, other options should be tried BEFORE resorting to prescribing fluoroquinolones.

With smart phones, it's very simple to google a prescription while you're sitting in front of a doctor, and it's acceptable (though they may not like it) for a patient to question them about alternatives and options. Case in point, though it didn't involve fluoroquinolones (though I learned to do this after my experience with them), while I was with my husband on an appt, his doctor prescribed a fairly common med for high blood pressure. I googled it while we were sitting there, and realized that it was COUNTERINDICATED if a person was taking some other drug as well, which he was. I said, "Should he take this if he's also taking this other drug?" and the doctor literally jumped, then glared at me, then googled it herself and then said, "Errrr, no - tell you what, let's change over to such and such." Wow. So yeah - sometimes doctors don't really research or read up on what they're prescribing to individual patients.

In other words, don't rely solely on your doctor being totally on top of things. Take charge of your own health care. Ask questions. Read warnings and suggestions. Know your options.

If there was no other option, even KNOWING that I would suffer at least tendon damage from these drugs, I'd take them rather than die. But I'd try other options first if at all possible. And that's not "my" advice - that's the advice - no, the sternest of admonitions - from the Federal Drug Administration.

I think it's just, frankly, irresponsible, not to encourage others to heed the warnings from the professionals, and avoid this family of drugs unless there is no other option. Like I said, yes, they'll work on just about any infection, but carpet bombing a village will work on enforcing a curfew too. Look at other options first. FDA warning, not mine.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:46 AM
 
5,416 posts, read 3,386,979 times
Reputation: 20452
Please continue your scathing crusade against life-saving drugs.

I find it fascinating.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Early America
1,464 posts, read 691,735 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
One way of getting probiotics that a dr told me about is to eat sauerkraut or pickles. But she said they have to be "real" pickles and sauerkraut. I'm not sure what that means but I went and got mine in a health food store so that it would be high quality. Apparently most of the supermarket stuff is junk and won't do it for you.
I think she meant fermented pickles because not all pickles are fermented.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
40,904 posts, read 32,658,014 times
Reputation: 57027
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Please continue your scathing crusade against life-saving drugs.

I find it fascinating.
Who is on a "crusade against life saving drugs?" Certainly not me. I've even stated that I would take Cipro again if it was the best option for my recovery from a serious illness, even knowing that it would probably really hurt me in other areas.

All I'm saying is that people need to be fully informed (and in this day and age that's easy), ask smart questions, and consider other alternatives WHEN THE FDA EVEN RECOMMENDS TO DO SO.

I can't for the life of me figure out why that advice is so fascinating (or irritating, or whatever) to some people.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:12 PM
 
575 posts, read 140,979 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Who is on a "crusade against life saving drugs?" Certainly not me. I've even stated that I would take Cipro again if it was the best option for my recovery from a serious illness, even knowing that it would probably really hurt me in other areas.

All I'm saying is that people need to be fully informed (and in this day and age that's easy), ask smart questions, and consider other alternatives WHEN THE FDA EVEN RECOMMENDS TO DO SO.

I can't for the life of me figure out why that advice is so fascinating (or irritating, or whatever) to some people.
I cant figure it out either. The protests are so intense it makes me wonder what the motive is. None of their business what drug I refuse or treatment or if I even see a dr. They think its such a great drug, they can take it. I like riding my horse. Im not sacrificing my lifestyle because medical people think its nothing and not important(already been thru that stereotyping and discrimination due to age with the medical establishment.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:15 PM
 
575 posts, read 140,979 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post
Please continue your scathing crusade against life-saving drugs.

I find it fascinating.
If that drug affects me in a harmful matter, you are darn right Ill continue my scathing remarks against drs who refuse to follow the FDAs advice.
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