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Old 04-20-2018, 11:17 AM
 
4,981 posts, read 7,760,512 times
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,136 posts, read 10,568,819 times
Reputation: 9289
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Meth has no societal or medicinal benefits whatsoever. Marijuana clear does have medicinal benefits (and problems - just like all medicines, i.e. just like all bioactive chemicals). Its not simply a comparison of two wrongs.
I was just using the terms thrown at me. Usually it is compared with alcohol and tobacco. You could probably say the same for tobacco. There is some research that suggests moderate alcohol consumption is beneficial - I am not comfortable with that research because it attempts to justifies alcohol use. So, the idea of a lesser evil; does not sit well with me. I would rather see us argue the merits and faults of the product and stay away from comparisons.

From the beginning I have stated that I believe that marijuana is not all good or all bad. I also believe that society should not embrace it as a wonder drug; it has obvious problems and is not meant for everybody. It can cause pain and suffering in more than one way.
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:20 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
15,814 posts, read 4,931,904 times
Reputation: 48032
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I was just using the terms thrown at me. Usually it is compared with alcohol and tobacco. You could probably say the same for tobacco. There is some research that suggests moderate alcohol consumption is beneficial - I am not comfortable with that research because it attempts to justifies alcohol use. So, the idea of a lesser evil; does not sit well with me. I would rather see us argue the merits and faults of the product and stay away from comparisons.

From the beginning I have stated that I believe that marijuana is not all good or all bad. I also believe that society should not embrace it as a wonder drug; it has obvious problems and is not meant for everybody. It can cause pain and suffering in more than one way.
You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, and rest assured that no one is going to force you to try cannabis if you don't want to.

Those who have used it know that cannabis has relieved much more pain and suffering than it has ever caused, and by a very wide margin, too. Cannabis has been used as medicine for thousands of years. The seismic shift toward legalization has already begun, and it's not going to stop despite 80 years of prohibition and propaganda from the U.S. Federal Government.
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:58 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
9,865 posts, read 8,003,412 times
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This is like arguing about Trump. No end in sight. No one changes their mind.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,136 posts, read 10,568,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, and rest assured that no one is going to force you to try cannabis if you don't want to.

Those who have used it know that cannabis has relieved much more pain and suffering than it has ever caused, and by a very wide margin, too. Cannabis has been used as medicine for thousands of years. The seismic shift toward legalization has already begun, and it's not going to stop despite 80 years of prohibition and propaganda from the U.S. Federal Government.
Yesterday was your day of celebration; 420. Yet we see that: "Your risk of dying in a fatal wreck increases about 12 percent on that date, comparable to the increase in traffic risk that's been observed on Super Bowl Sunday, according to the analysis of crash data". According to this CBS article: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/420-mar...d-study-finds/. It sounds, from that article that pot causes more fatal accidents than alcohol - considering one celebration is about pot and one is a drinking celebration. Of course that is not scientific; but it is a great start for another study.

How much pain and suffering do people have when they die? How much pain and suffering do people have from automobile accidents? You cannot contribute all this to just more US Government propaganda; you also have to question the users and those in denial.

Like was just pointed out, there is no end in sight unless you can acknowledge your own problems.
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:46 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
15,814 posts, read 4,931,904 times
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Fisheye, you have made your position abundantly clear. I happen to disagree with you. I think your fears are unfounded, or at the very least, exaggerated. Since there is zero chance that either of us will change our views, it seems fruitless to continue this discussion, don't you think? I wish you well.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:07 AM
 
1,092 posts, read 916,924 times
Reputation: 1658
Default I guess I've been doing it wrong all this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
You still seem clueless about this. There are more US-based published research papers showing measurable benefits of various individual, or entourage effect, cannabis components than any of those country-based publications. Get on PubMed. This 2018 not 1960. And those showing the (inevitable) undesired consequences too. Yes, you are coming across as paranoid - and someone susceptible to confirmation bias. Funding with NIH grants leads to conclusions all the time that are "inconsistent" with "government policy." You try to analogize with tobacco industry funding - when their research output is basically miniscule - and nowadays all conflicts of interest, grant funding and research funding is also published. Its just naÔve to label this country's output or that country's output (not even always in peer-reviewed journals) as somehow having more veracity than that coming form US research labs. What's more, most research is paid for by the biopharma/pharma industry - where they are trying to find a provable therapeutic effect or by universities - and most university-published research on THC and terpenes in the past decade is dominated by positive biological effects. Epidemiological data shows what it shows - its usually meta-analyses where the data is present for anyone to look at and has already been researched and "paid for" well prior to the meta-analyses being done (and usually by someone else).




That's why results are published, along with the subjects used, the conditions, the methods and the materials used to obtain them - all of it anyone can go reproduce or disprove.


You are confusing propagandist's claims and PR with the actual demonstrable research. Two different things. Just because you don't like a result doesn't make it invalid and biased - same with climate research, GMOs. You're putting dogma before falsifiable fact. I know its ironic we are talking about paranoia, but really.


You also mention patents - not only have US patents been issued on medical uses for marijuana or components thereof, or new strains, the US Government, through its agency the Patent Office, continue to be issued this very day - all based on data obtained in the US. (And subsequently published in the patents).




The current scientific consensus - based on what anyone can access in the published data - is clearly in weight of medical advantages from marijuana and its components, a huge amount of that research is US research. The shoot-down-anything-negative nonsensers notwithstanding. It contains tens of bioactive chemicals, and will therefore have side effects, that is indisputable. Rubbishing them simply because they are inconvenient or don't fit the narrative is what's fraudulent.
Yeah, I agree, I'm clueless about this subject. Thanks for pointing out the correct year, I really thought it was 1960. I've only been researching the available literature for about 44 years. In all that time I've learned nothing. I guess my intellect is just too small to discern the truth.

Cannabis has been so politicized in the US and UK, that I prefer to read peer reviewed studies done by non-government sources, and other countries where the bias might be less. So, I guess I'm an unpatriotic dummy.

I have, somehow, been able to establish what a good study looks like, and I do know what the scientific method is, but thanks for 'splaining that in case I was too stupid to have picked that up.

I do use the PubMed site, but most likely it is above my intellectual level. My I.Q. usually tests out at no more than 137, so, practically a moron. I'm apparently naive too, because the NIH is not my divine source for unbiased information. But then neither is the DEA, nor any other US government agency, nor big pharma, which all have a vested interest in the status quo.

Of course tobacco research (into it's harmful effects) are minuscule, that question was solved decades ago. But in my limited mental capacity, this seems obvious to me. I must have missed something.

I guess I'm just going to have to struggle along with my pitiful confirmation bias, confusion and cluelessness for the time being, but you never know, thanks to your pointing out my many weaknesses, I still might find the truth sometime, since even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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