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Old 04-02-2018, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
11,802 posts, read 9,929,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
I am sorry that you lost your mother that way, fisheye. Yes, seniors need to be especially careful. I should know; I am one. I'll be 70 this year. I already had one fall which broke my wrist (not cannabis related), so I am well aware of the dangers and act accordingly. Normally I only use cannabis in the evening when I'm not going out.

I think that the risks have to be balanced with the benefits. Everyone has to decide for himself what benefits are worth taking a risk for. Having a couple of drinks will also affect balance, and there are no health benefits whatsoever, while some studies show that cannabis increases bone density and prevents age-related bone loss. That's a real benefit for older people. Cannabinoids and the Skeleton

For those who prefer to avoid the psychoactivity, CBD offers the same benefits.
First, thank you! But my mother was old and had several strokes; it was expected - just a terrible way to die in a hospice. She did not have the strength to have the hip replacement operation.

PA now has legalized medical marijuana. My wife's oncologist would not even recommend the CBD oil; our son had asked. It could simply be the doctor's unfamiliarity with the oil? The doctor was afraid of a fall since my wife had a pin placed in her femur. As time goes by it is possible that will change. But to ignore my wife's doctor, when she is responsible for all of the medications given with chemo, would be unwise. Supposedly she is the expert and my wife is a 'fall' hazard. We are already 70.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:18 AM
 
4,901 posts, read 7,611,744 times
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Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
First, thank you! But my mother was old and had several strokes; it was expected - just a terrible way to die in a hospice. She did not have the strength to have the hip replacement operation.
fisheye, I too am sorry to hear about your mother. I know what you mean. Both of my parents took falls that broke hips and landed them in the hospital, then to nursing homes where they remained until they died. They never fully recovered from their injuries. They were in their 90's. I'm 72 and still have a hard time realizing that all that's left are the memories of them. The memories are comforting, but the loss is still great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
PA now has legalized medical marijuana. My wife's oncologist would not even recommend the CBD oil; our son had asked. It could simply be the doctor's unfamiliarity with the oil? The doctor was afraid of a fall since my wife had a pin placed in her femur. As time goes by it is possible that will change. But to ignore my wife's doctor, when she is responsible for all of the medications given with chemo, would be unwise. Supposedly she is the expert and my wife is a 'fall' hazard. We are already 70.
I suspect your wife's doctor is not all that familiar with CBD for several reasons. Perhaps the main reason is because CBD is not widely regarded as an accepted mainstream form of medication. It's also likely the doctor has unfounded concerns that because it is derived from cannabis and the thinking being that cannabis gets people stoned, thus the risk of falling, especially the elderly. The problem is confusing the effects of CBD with the effects of THC. THC can indeed make a person woozy depending on the amount consumed. Regardless, the physician also probably doesn't want to take any risks with CBD because of concern that it might not help the medical problem.

I live in Oregon where marijuana, both medical and recreational, are legal. To qualify for an annual medical marijuana card, a physician must recommend it based on the patient's medical condition, on a state form. Physicians cannot actually prescribe medical marijuana like other medications though. Medical marijuana is considered to be an alternative treatment, and that marijuana is still considered illegal by the federal government.

That said, even though CBD oil is not going to get anyone stoned, it's still a good idea to keep an eye on the elderly. Sometimes they can still fall. They still need help, especially if their balance is not all that great. Need to take trash out to the garbage or recycle containers? Leave it and let someone else dispose of it. Don't use cannabis high in THC, unless someone else is present and able to watch over them to make sure they're safe. CBD oil should not have any weird side effects. Still, it's a good idea to be present enough times for added security until everyone is certain that there are no issues of any kind.

If your elderly relatives have aches and pains, trying using a CBD lotion or salve where it hurts. Those are topicals and doesn't go into the bloodstream. They help sooth the muscles. Keep in mind too that while CBD or any form of marijuana might work fine for some folks, it might not work for all people. Everyone is different. That's also true with any kind of medication.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
11,802 posts, read 9,929,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
fisheye, I too am sorry to hear about your mother. I know what you mean. Both of my parents took falls that broke hips and landed them in the hospital, then to nursing homes where they remained until they died. They never fully recovered from their injuries. They were in their 90's. I'm 72 and still have a hard time realizing that all that's left are the memories of them. The memories are comforting, but the loss is still great.
Thank you again and I am sorry to hear of the similar problems you faced with your parents. It is extremely hard for close relatives to watch their loved ones waste away in pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I suspect your wife's doctor is not all that familiar with CBD for several reasons. Perhaps the main reason is because CBD is not widely regarded as an accepted mainstream form of medication. It's also likely the doctor has unfounded concerns that because it is derived from cannabis and the thinking being that cannabis gets people stoned, thus the risk of falling, especially the elderly. The problem is confusing the effects of CBD with the effects of THC. THC can indeed make a person woozy depending on the amount consumed. Regardless, the physician also probably doesn't want to take any risks with CBD because of concern that it might not help the medical problem.

I live in Oregon where marijuana, both medical and recreational, are legal. To qualify for an annual medical marijuana card, a physician must recommend it based on the patient's medical condition, on a state form. Physicians cannot actually prescribe medical marijuana like other medications though. Medical marijuana is considered to be an alternative treatment, and that marijuana is still considered illegal by the federal government.

That said, even though CBD oil is not going to get anyone stoned, it's still a good idea to keep an eye on the elderly. Sometimes they can still fall. They still need help, especially if their balance is not all that great. Need to take trash out to the garbage or recycle containers? Leave it and let someone else dispose of it. Don't use cannabis high in THC, unless someone else is present and able to watch over them to make sure they're safe. CBD oil should not have any weird side effects. Still, it's a good idea to be present enough times for added security until everyone is certain that there are no issues of any kind.

If your elderly relatives have aches and pains, trying using a CBD lotion or salve where it hurts. Those are topicals and doesn't go into the bloodstream. They help sooth the muscles. Keep in mind too that while CBD or any form of marijuana might work fine for some folks, it might not work for all people. Everyone is different. That's also true with any kind of medication.
But here is the Catch 22: Would you go against your doctor's advice and still administer or recommend CBD oil because you felt the doctor was wrong? As we get older there is a good chance that we will fall; with or without any new medication. While you might feel that you are doing the right thing and it will make no difference whether your loved one falls; it would still be on your conscious if they did fall. There is no way I can second guess my wife's doctor; I would never take the chance of being wrong. If my doctors chemotherapy regiment does not work we can seek another opinion and they might recommend the CBD oil? But we are not there yet.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:41 AM
 
25,695 posts, read 37,218,178 times
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Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
You have never been around people using?

I hate that the mindset is that nobody can say anything negative about this 'new' wonder drug. Some people have this idea that it doesn't affect their driving, it doesn't affect their work, and it cures all disease - NOT THE CASE!

While there are medical reasons to use the drug or it's extracts; there are also good reasons not to use marijuana. It is like telling cancer patients to use marijuana to reduce pain and nausea and forgetting that it can cause dizziness (that can contribute to a patient falling and breaking a hip).

There is no substance on earth that is 100% good. Even drinking too much water can be detrimental to your health or even fatal.
Yes I have so I guess that makes me considerably more knowledgeable about the subject than you. Your paranoia seems extreme. Using marijuana or oils is no different than using any other drug or alcohol. Be sensible. And you are showing you're clueless by stating that people have the idea that using it doesn't affect driving. They do. But it's the same mindset that people have that get drunk and drive. They're too stupid to figure they shouldn't. And if we're going to bring up driving and using then should cell phones be banned since they also affect driving?

Logic fails when it's used selectively.
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:06 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
15,571 posts, read 4,734,940 times
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Fisheye, I wouldn't worry too much about going against the doctor's advice regarding your wife's cancer treatment. He cannot recommend any type of cannabis product because it's illegal at the federal level, and he has not had any education in its use. Therefore I'm sure he feels it would be irresponsible of him to tell you to use something he knows nothing about, and that is understandable. But of course you have to decide for yourself what's best for her.

The way I think of it is that CBD is not a drug, it's a plant extract. It has no psychoactive properties. It's more like a food supplement. My 77-year-old husband has cardiac issues and for more than a year has used CBD daily for his arthritis pain. His doctor has no problem with this after I explained what CBD is and what it can do and gave him a pamphlet on the subject. He really likes the pain cream, too. I don't see CBD as conflicting with conventional medicine but as a complement to it. It's just another tool in the toolbox.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
11,802 posts, read 9,929,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
Fisheye, I wouldn't worry too much about going against the doctor's advice regarding your wife's cancer treatment. He cannot recommend any type of cannabis product because it's illegal at the federal level, and he has not had any education in its use. Therefore I'm sure he feels it would be irresponsible of him to tell you to use something he knows nothing about, and that is understandable. But of course you have to decide for yourself what's best for her.

The way I think of it is that CBD is not a drug, it's a plant extract. It has no psychoactive properties. It's more like a food supplement. My 77-year-old husband has cardiac issues and for more than a year has used CBD daily for his arthritis pain. His doctor has no problem with this after I explained what CBD is and what it can do and gave him a pamphlet on the subject. He really likes the pain cream, too. I don't see CBD as conflicting with conventional medicine but as a complement to it. It's just another tool in the toolbox.
If or when chemotherapy starts to fail and it will probably with stage 4 cancer; then we will worry about other alternatives. Until that time we will abide by the doctor's decision. Our son has a PHD and he fought a valiant battle for the CBD and lost to the doctor. As you point out there could be legal or moral issues; but how do you determine if there are not drug interaction or potential side effects that the doctor worries about - we will not even know the specific treatment until next Monday? When you have a loved one's life on the line, that I do, do you trust your judgement more than the medical professionals? I would not want to be wrong. Would you want your husband to make a mistake that could shorten his life? These are not easy decisions to make.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
15,571 posts, read 4,734,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
If or when chemotherapy starts to fail and it will probably with stage 4 cancer; then we will worry about other alternatives. Until that time we will abide by the doctor's decision. Our son has a PHD and he fought a valiant battle for the CBD and lost to the doctor. As you point out there could be legal or moral issues; but how do you determine if there are not drug interaction or potential side effects that the doctor worries about - we will not even know the specific treatment until next Monday? When you have a loved one's life on the line, that I do, do you trust your judgement more than the medical professionals? I would not want to be wrong. Would you want your husband to make a mistake that could shorten his life? These are not easy decisions to make.
Oh, fisheye, I am so sorry that your wife's cancer might not work. That must be so hard for both of you. As far as I know, there isn't any interaction between CBD and pharmaceutical drugs, but I'm not an expert on this matter and would never presume to advise you on such a serious medical matter.

Of course I would not want to shorten my husband's life but my belief, based on more than a year's experience of taking it daily, is that there has never been any type of problem for him or for me (I take meds also). I feel that CBD is actually improving our quality of life.

Medical cannabis (the kind with THC) is said to relieve pain, reduce nausea and anxiety and increase appetite in cancer patients. Some are even saying that cannabis has curative properties. This claim is unproven, of course, which is why we need serious research. But there's pretty good evidence out there that cannabis can at the very least be helpful for pain relief, and it's not addictive the way opiates are. I would not want you to feel that you are experimenting with your wife's health, though, so it's yours (and her) decision to make.

Best wishes to you both.

Last edited by Bayarea4; 04-02-2018 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:00 AM
 
4,901 posts, read 7,611,744 times
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Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Thank you again and I am sorry to hear of the similar problems you faced with your parents. It is extremely hard for close relatives to watch their loved ones waste away in pain.
Agreed. It's difficult to see your loved ones wasting away. My parents were both heavily drugged to reduce the pain and awareness of slipping away. Both of my parents had alzheimers, although it was more severe for my mother. Near the end for my father, food and liquids were restricted to prevent choking. The only moisture he could have was a small water-soaked sponge on a stick to moisten his lips and tongue. His kidneys had failed. He seemed relatively fine a few says before. The end came fairly quick. He was somewhat aware of what was happening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
But here is the Catch 22: Would you go against your doctor's advice and still administer or recommend CBD oil because you felt the doctor was wrong? As we get older there is a good chance that we will fall; with or without any new medication. While you might feel that you are doing the right thing and it will make no difference whether your loved one falls; it would still be on your conscious if they did fall. There is no way I can second guess my wife's doctor; I would never take the chance of being wrong. If my doctors chemotherapy regiment does not work we can seek another opinion and they might recommend the CBD oil? But we are not there yet.
I would take my physician's advice into consideration. On the other hand, if chemotherapy is used for treatment and causes nausea, and cannabis is able to reduce the symptoms of nausea, then I would opt for that. If the cannabis doesn't help, then so much for that. I suppose an advantage for me is that many of the physicians I know are open to alternatives unless there is definite evidence that the alternative would truly be harmful, such as harmful side effects from interacting with other medications.

As you mentioned, older people have a greater risk of falling and injuring themselves, with or without meds. The key thing is to be aware of the options, and share that information with the loved one. Granted, if the loved one is not in need of certain meds, such as cannabis, then of course, there's no need to use it. And there's also the possibility that cannabis might not always help. Different people can have different results, primarily that it will either help or it won't. That's true for many kinds of meds.

Being informed is part of being better prepared to make decisions. If the time comes that you think cannabis might be worth trying, then you should both understand certain things. Namely, if she need help to go to the bathroom (for example), she should have help if she feels woozy. It isn't always necessary to be stoned all the time; only when it's necessary. The sensation of feeling stoned does wear off while the beneficial effects are still working. Ultimately, the decision of whether to use cannabis or not is up to you and your wife. Keep yourself informed.

I don't know if marijuana or hemp oil is helpful or not for symptoms related to chemotherapy. If it is vaporized (better than combustible smoke), go easy with it until becoming more familiar with how it works and how much is enough or not enough. I agree, if the time comes, seek the advice and second opinion from another physician, preferably one who is more familiar with cannabis. From what you indicated earlier, your current physician may lean toward beliefs based on outdated information.

Here is something on the subject from the American Cancer Society:
https://www.cancer.org/treatment/tre...nd-cancer.html
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:09 AM
 
Location: flyover country
13,563 posts, read 24,889,565 times
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Originally Posted by Bayarea4 View Post
Colorado reported an increase in fatalities in the year after they legalized recreational cannabis, but the way things are now, it's impossible to know whether cannabis was a factor. That's because THC is still detectable in the blood and urine for a number of weeks after use. Therefore a driver who had used cannabis weeks before, but not since, might be in an accident that causes a death, and thus cannabis would be blamed even though the driver may not have been stoned at the time of the accident. This skews the statistics to make cannabis look like more of a contributing factor than it really is.
A ~13% increase in population since the last Census (at least in the Denver metro) could just as soon account for any increase. More people and more cars mean more accidents.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:31 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
15,571 posts, read 4,734,940 times
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Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
A ~13% increase in population since the last Census (at least in the Denver metro) could just as soon account for any increase. More people and more cars mean more accidents.
I suspect that even if they adjusted the figures to take population into account, there might still be an increase because of all the newbie tourists flocking to Colorado to take advantage of recreational MJ.
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