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Old 04-03-2018, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,028 posts, read 98,908,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You know what prevents sickness? A healthy immune system. A 36% efficacy is p-ss poor. If the flu was so deadly this year, more people should be dead since the vaccine was barely useful. yet ... avg year for pediatric deaths. No data for adults, becuase, well, there is no mandatory reporting. So there is never an accurate count for that.

Although I agree the reporting has been awful. Ridiculous amount of fear mongering, you'd think people were falling over dead in the grocery store every day.

(cue another cut and paste from 10 year old data that doesn't say anything of use)

OP doctors make mistakes all the time. In this case your daughter was already sick, so not much could be done.
Nothing you do to "strengthen" your immune system will give you antibodies to any disease.


Per the bold, I see you don't understand epidemiology.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:28 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
3,200 posts, read 9,249,894 times
Reputation: 4759
She may have had strep (and flu). The strep test would have come up negative after 3 days of antibiotics, possibly. She may have actually had it.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:38 AM
 
4,812 posts, read 1,554,174 times
Reputation: 7881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Nothing you do to "strengthen" your immune system will give you antibodies to any disease.


Per the bold, I see you don't understand epidemiology.
Per the bold, I see you do not understand the very, very, very basics of immunology.

Creating antibodies to combat disease is exactly what the immune system does. Every day. All day long. While you live, while you eat, while you sleep. While you post on CD. To every single pathogen it encounters. Biology 101. Simple rudimentary stuff. It's how your body defends itself from disease.

If it did not do this on a daily basis?

You'd be dead. There would be no humans alive.

How do people not know this???
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,553 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26580
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You know what prevents sickness? A healthy immune system. A 36% efficacy is p-ss poor. If the flu was so deadly this year, more people should be dead since the vaccine was barely useful. yet ... avg year for pediatric deaths. No data for adults, becuase, well, there is no mandatory reporting. So there is never an accurate count for that.

Although I agree the reporting has been awful. Ridiculous amount of fear mongering, you'd think people were falling over dead in the grocery store every day.

(cue another cut and paste from 10 year old data that doesn't say anything of use)

OP doctors make mistakes all the time. In this case your daughter was already sick, so not much could be done.
Someone with the most nearly perfect immune system can still get influenza.

Effectiveness - not efficacy, which is similar but not exactly the same - in part depends on the number of people who take the vaccine. The ridiculous amount of fear mongering about the vaccine, which actually has about a one in a million incidence of having a severe adverse effect, contributes to low vaccine uptake. People have to take the vaccine in order for it to work. If more would take it, herd immunity would kick in and fewer would get sick.

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/201/11/1607/850248

"Vaccine effectiveness is often confused with vaccine efficacy (in fact, one former designation for it was “field efficacy”) but should be viewed as a distinctly different, although related, concept ... Vaccine effectiveness is proportional to vaccine potency (ie, vaccine efficacy) but is also affected by how well target groups in the population are immunized."

The pediatric data Katarina presented is not ten years old. It covers a ten year period ending in 2016. It takes a while to compile statistics, so at the time the article was written, earlier this year, that was the most recent ten year interval for which figures are available. This was not an average year for pediatric deaths. Out of the last 14 flu seasons, only three have had more pediatric deaths, and we are still counting for this season. We know from the surveillance of pediatric flu deaths that about half of the children who die are otherwise healthy and about three fourths were not vaccinated. That means that vaccination would potentially have prevented about three fourths of the pediatric deaths. If you had bothered to look at the numbers you could have avoided making a statement that is easily shown to be untrue.

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

It is true that flu deaths from adults are not counted countrywide, but it is not true that there is no data for adults. Counts are made in specific areas and a statistical extrapolation made for the entire country. Why are they not counted? Because there are so many of them it would be extremely expensive to do so. It has not been an average season for adults, either.

The Flu is Killing Up to 4,000 Americans a Week | Fortune

As of February:

"The levels of influenza-like illnesses being reported now are as high as the peak of the swine flu epidemic in 2009, and exceed the last severe seasonal flu outbreak in 2003 when a new strain started circulating, said Anne Schuchat, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s acting director."

Adult flu death estimation:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/diseas...ted_deaths.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/overview.htm
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,553 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26580
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Per the bold, I see you do not understand the very, very, very basics of immunology.

Creating antibodies to combat disease is exactly what the immune system does. Every day. All day long. While you live, while you eat, while you sleep. While you post on CD. To every single pathogen it encounters. Biology 101. Simple rudimentary stuff. It's how your body defends itself from disease.

If it did not do this on a daily basis?

You'd be dead. There would be no humans alive.

How do people not know this???
In order to produce antibodies there must be exposure to the organism against which that specific antibody is being made. If the immune system has never "seen" that particular organism, it will not make antibodies to it. Therefore the key word in your post is "encounters". If there has been no encounter, there will be no antibodies.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to "strengthen your immune system" that will be guaranteed to prevent you from catching the flu. If you do catch it, your immune system will kick in and tackle the virus. The kicker is that it's actually the attack by the immune system causes all the flu symptoms: the fever, muscle aches, headache, and feeling like you have been hit by a bus. A particularly violent immune response can actually produce a phenomenon called "cytokine storm".

That is the "very, very, very basics of immunology".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/healt...lls/index.html
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:14 AM
 
4,507 posts, read 6,165,404 times
Reputation: 4036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Unless you checked his credentials personally you really don't know.
No, frequemtly they wear name tags with PA or MD on them. Otherwise, google is pretty easy to use and check.
Of course, you can always ask too. But they usually introduce themselves as what they are.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:05 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 8,599,004 times
Reputation: 25983
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You know what prevents sickness? A healthy immune system. A 36% efficacy is p-ss poor. If the flu was so deadly this year, more people should be dead since the vaccine was barely useful. yet ... avg year for pediatric deaths. No data for adults, becuase, well, there is no mandatory reporting. So there is never an accurate count for that.

Although I agree the reporting has been awful. Ridiculous amount of fear mongering, you'd think people were falling over dead in the grocery store every day.

(cue another cut and paste from 10 year old data that doesn't say anything of use)

OP doctors make mistakes all the time. In this case your daughter was already sick, so not much could be done.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The single most effective thing you can do to prevent the flu is take the flu vaccine. Thirty-six percent effectiveness in preventing the disease is far greater than you will accomplish by taking any other single measure. Its going to beat vitamins. Its going to beat exercise. Its going to beat wearing a mask over your mouth and nose.

The flu is something to be concerned about. It kills thousands of people every year.

CDC's estimates of deaths from the flu are dependable unlike your own personal opinion.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
10,647 posts, read 3,330,507 times
Reputation: 12754
After 9 days my daughter is feeling herself again.


Thanks for all the advice!
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,176 posts, read 16,544,646 times
Reputation: 13385
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Yep. A family friend had been experiencing a lot of symptoms and went through rigorous amounts of testing, changed her diet, different drugs, they couldn't find everything. After a year of this with no relief of symptoms, she changed medical teams and had a new bout of testing done.

She had a large brain tumor.

When they went back to all her previous testing, it was clear as day on the INITIAL SCANS. The radiologist missed it.

She spent almost a year untreated for it. They had to do emergency surgery, clipped her brain and she ended up in a wheelchair, motor dysfunction and speech impaired.

So yes, doctors make mistakes. All the time.
I too went through a couple years of extreme headaches and narrowed vision and was taking meds and avoiding certain foods and drinks, per instructions of my "headache specialist" MD. Then my optometrist discovered "something back there" behind my eye and sent me to a neurologist for evaluation. Neurologist said I had the largest brain tumor he'd ever seen (grapefruit size) and made an appointment with who he said was one of the top three neurosurgeons in the country.

He was still 350 miles away, so he ordered blood work for me at our local hospital before our visit. Got everything done and saw him. He was perplexed -- said he suspected a prolactinoma pituitary tumor, but one of that size should have pushed my prolactin level into the thousands, and mine was only at 67 -- "high, but not nearly as high as it should be with a tumor of that size." So I had the top of my skull removed, lost my sense of smell forever, spent the next year recovering.

The kicker was that my prolactin level was checked again immediately after surgery and it came back a 6700, not 67! Had we known that, it could have been treated with Parlodel instead of surgery. (Well, it was treated with Parlodel anyway, since he only trimmed the size of the tumor, then put me on the med to shrink it to the size of a pinhead.)

So some lab worker moved the decimal point two places, likely because he "knew" the level couldn't be 6700. And one of the country's top neurosurgeons accepted the lab's findings despite suspecting something wasn't right.

No, I didn't sue. I was just happy to be alive. Suing wasn't going to bring back my sense of smell.

Doctors (and lab techs) are not gods. They make mistakes just like all other humans.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:12 PM
 
4,812 posts, read 1,554,174 times
Reputation: 7881
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The single most effective thing you can do to prevent the flu is take the flu vaccine. Thirty-six percent effectiveness in preventing the disease is far greater than you will accomplish by taking any other single measure. Its going to beat vitamins. Its going to beat exercise. Its going to beat wearing a mask over your mouth and nose.

The flu is something to be concerned about. It kills thousands of people every year.

CDC's estimates of deaths from the flu are dependable unlike your own personal opinion.

The CDC does not require mandatory reporting of deaths by flu for adults.

The CDC uses multiple ICD-10 codes to decide whether someone died of the flu when it does look at data. Please get some facts. Facts are your friend. Look into how the CDC *estimates* these stats for the adult population. Because that is what it is, just a guess.

And since the flu was so deadly this year and efficacy was so poor, logic dictates that there should be many more deaths, much more than an average year, correct?

Death rate is average this year. Please explain how all those people who did not get the vaccine are alive, as well as the 56% who did get the vaccine but had no protection, when death rates -- as assessed according to these facts -- should be through the roof.

But deaths are average in spite of all the fear mongering by the media.

Again, facts are your friends.
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