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Old 04-03-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Midwest
3,723 posts, read 6,729,654 times
Reputation: 5655

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I saw two RNPs, one MD at the walk-in clinic, and one orthopod who all missed my diagnosis until I saw a rheumatologist. He nailed it within two minutes of my describing symptoms.

Funny, I could've plugged in the symptoms online and probably come up with the dx myself within a few minutes.

Funnier even more (not really) that NONE of the so-called professionals apparently had a functioning diagnostic program.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:43 PM
 
3,053 posts, read 1,220,050 times
Reputation: 6083
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
The CDC does not require mandatory reporting of deaths by flu for adults.

The CDC uses multiple ICD-10 codes to decide whether someone died of the flu when it does look at data. Please get some facts. Facts are your friend. Look into how the CDC *estimates* these stats for the adult population. Because that is what it is, just a guess.

And since the flu was so deadly this year and efficacy was so poor, logic dictates that there should be many more deaths, much more than an average year, correct?

Death rate is average this year. Please explain how all those people who did not get the vaccine are alive, as well as the 56% who did get the vaccine but had no protection, when death rates -- as assessed according to these facts -- should be through the roof.

But deaths are average in spite of all the fear mongering by the media.

Again, facts are your friends.
You might want to review what happened during the great Spanish flu epidemic. It wasn’t the weak and inform who died. Many young and healthy people with strong immune systems also died.
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26568
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
The CDC does not require mandatory reporting of deaths by flu for adults.

The CDC uses multiple ICD-10 codes to decide whether someone died of the flu when it does look at data. Please get some facts. Facts are your friend. Look into how the CDC *estimates* these stats for the adult population. Because that is what it is, just a guess.

And since the flu was so deadly this year and efficacy was so poor, logic dictates that there should be many more deaths, much more than an average year, correct?

Death rate is average this year. Please explain how all those people who did not get the vaccine are alive, as well as the 56% who did get the vaccine but had no protection, when death rates -- as assessed according to these facts -- should be through the roof.

But deaths are average in spite of all the fear mongering by the media.

Again, facts are your friends.
Yes, facts are your friends. A basic understanding of epidemiology and statistics is also useful. You might also want to check out how efficacy and effectiveness are different. There is a link in my previous post.

The estimate of adult flu deaths is based on facts. It is not a "guess". It is an extrapolation made from information from centers around the country.

The death rate this year is not "average", no matter how much you personally wish it would be. The irony is that first you claim flu deaths cannot be counted, then you claim the death rate is "average". How do you know it's "average", then, if the estimate is only a "guess"? Pediatric deaths are counted, and despite your claim that they are also "average" the numbers show that they are not. Only three of the last 14 flu seasons have a higher number of pediatric deaths, and the current season is not over yet.

See "How does CDC estimate the number of influenza-associated deaths that occurred during the influenza season?" in the link:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/2015-16.htm

Your question about the people who were not vaccinated or not protected by the vaccine just demonstrates more ignorance about the flu vaccine. First, not everyone gets flu. If you do not get it, you cannot die from it. Second, being vaccinated tends to reduce the severity of flu, even if you do get it despite taking the vaccine. Finally, most people who die from flu were not vaccinated, including 80% of kids who die.

This is not an "average" flu season:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/h...es-deaths.html

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/mortality.html
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:21 PM
 
4,507 posts, read 6,165,404 times
Reputation: 4036
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
You might want to review what happened during the great Spanish flu epidemic. It wasn’t the weak and inform who died. Many young and healthy people with strong immune systems also died.
Exactly.
The Spanish Flu Killed people with the strongest and healthiest immune systems since it caused a cytokine storm and essentially used the immune system against itself. The lungs were collateral damage.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,036 posts, read 5,219,555 times
Reputation: 9508
That stinks. But, aside from not ordering the rapid test, I'm not sure how the outcome would have been better if he had diagnosed it as the flu. Tamiflu might have made it better, a little bit. Maybe.

And, after a few days on antibiotics she likely wouldn't have tested positive for strep. So, its not impossible that she did have strep. And the flu. Ick.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Lake Forest Round Rock, Tx
1,024 posts, read 1,584,543 times
Reputation: 788
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
After 9 days my daughter is feeling herself again.


Thanks for all the advice!
Glad your daughter is feeling like herself again.


I just wanted to chime in to let you know I would've done EXACTLY like you did...request for refund and all. Even though a refund or even a response from the director is not guaranteed, it's a matter of principle. If nothing else, you made them aware of the mistake.


Sorry you had to deal with an incompetent doctor. As you stated, your daughter was seen by an MD, and you should have been able to trust the diagnosis.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31471
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
In order to produce antibodies there must be exposure to the organism against which that specific antibody is being made. If the immune system has never "seen" that particular organism, it will not make antibodies to it. Therefore the key word in your post is "encounters". If there has been no encounter, there will be no antibodies.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to "strengthen your immune system" that will be guaranteed to prevent you from catching the flu. If you do catch it, your immune system will kick in and tackle the virus. The kicker is that it's actually the attack by the immune system causes all the flu symptoms: the fever, muscle aches, headache, and feeling like you have been hit by a bus. A particularly violent immune response can actually produce a phenomenon called "cytokine storm".

That is the "very, very, very basics of immunology".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/healt...lls/index.html
Thanks, suzy_q! I've been gone most of the day, ironically, at a health fair! Now that I'm back. . .

To reinforce what you've said about flu, 10 states, including yours and mine report confirmed influenza hospitalizations to the CDC.
"The FluSurv-NET covers more than 70 counties in the 10 Emerging Infections Program (EIP) states (CA, CO, CT, GA, MD, MN, NM, NY, OR, and TN) and additional Influenza Hospitalization Surveillance Project (IHSP) states. . . Data gathered are used to estimate age-specific hospitalization rates on a weekly basis, and describe characteristics of persons hospitalized with influenza illness. The rates provided are likely to be an underestimate as influenza-related hospitalizations can be missed, either because testing is not performed, or because cases may be attributed to other causes of pneumonia or other common influenza-related complications. . . A total of 27,438 laboratory-confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations were reported between October 1, 2017 and March 24, 2018. The overall hospitalization rate was 96.1 per 100,000 population. The highest rate of hospitalization was among adults aged ≥65 years (412.6 per 100,000 population), followed by adults aged 50-64 (104.2 per 100,000 population) and children aged 0-4 years (68.7 per 100,000 population)."

Colorado data: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...MJwzs8u8p9/pub

Also:
"Based on National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) mortality surveillance data available on March 29, 2018, 7.7% of the deaths occurring during the week ending March 10, 2018 (week 10) were due to P&I. This percentage is above the epidemic threshold of 7.4% for week 10."

So yes, facts are friends. The CDC is not making up data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The single most effective thing you can do to prevent the flu is take the flu vaccine. Thirty-six percent effectiveness in preventing the disease is far greater than you will accomplish by taking any other single measure. Its going to beat vitamins. Its going to beat exercise. Its going to beat wearing a mask over your mouth and nose.

The flu is something to be concerned about. It kills thousands of people every year.

CDC's estimates of deaths from the flu are dependable unlike your own personal opinion.
Yes, yes, yes! Literally every source says the #1 way to prevent flu is to get a flu vaccination. Vaccination takes precedence over any other practice, such as wearing masks, covering coughs, washing hands till they bleed (note I am not recommending not washing one's hands as a normal hygiene practice), etc, etc, etc.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:11 PM
 
4,805 posts, read 1,554,174 times
Reputation: 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
You might want to review what happened during the great Spanish flu epidemic. It wasn’t the weak and inform who died. Many young and healthy people with strong immune systems also died.
So you want to compare a disease that struck during a time where there was no indoor plumbing, no sanitation, no true hygiene, poor nutrition and dirty/cold/harsh living conditions with life in today's America?

Check your facts and return with an appropriate comparison to today's lifestyle and conditions. Because Spanish Flu 100 years ago in third world conditions? Ain't it.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:15 PM
 
4,805 posts, read 1,554,174 times
Reputation: 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Thanks, suzy_q! I've been gone most of the day, ironically, at a health fair! Now that I'm back. . .

To reinforce what you've said about flu, 10 states, including yours and mine report confirmed influenza hospitalizations to the CDC.
"The FluSurv-NET covers more than 70 counties in the 10 Emerging Infections Program (EIP) states (CA, CO, CT, GA, MD, MN, NM, NY, OR, and TN) and additional Influenza Hospitalization Surveillance Project (IHSP) states. . . Data gathered are used to estimate age-specific hospitalization rates on a weekly basis, and describe characteristics of persons hospitalized with influenza illness. The rates provided are likely to be an underestimate as influenza-related hospitalizations can be missed, either because testing is not performed, or because cases may be attributed to other causes of pneumonia or other common influenza-related complications. . . A total of 27,438 laboratory-confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations were reported between October 1, 2017 and March 24, 2018. The overall hospitalization rate was 96.1 per 100,000 population. The highest rate of hospitalization was among adults aged ≥65 years (412.6 per 100,000 population), followed by adults aged 50-64 (104.2 per 100,000 population) and children aged 0-4 years (68.7 per 100,000 population)."

Colorado data: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...MJwzs8u8p9/pub

Also:
"Based on National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) mortality surveillance data available on March 29, 2018, 7.7% of the deaths occurring during the week ending March 10, 2018 (week 10) were due to P&I. This percentage is above the epidemic threshold of 7.4% for week 10."

So yes, facts are friends. The CDC is not making up data.



Yes, yes, yes! Literally every source says the #1 way to prevent flu is to get a flu vaccination. Vaccination takes precedence over any other practice, such as wearing masks, covering coughs, washing hands till they bleed (note I am not recommending not washing one's hands as a normal hygiene practice), etc, etc, etc.
So the ONLY way to encounter any pathogen is to get a vaccine?

OMG. Seriously. Seriously. GO take a basic biology course.

If we lived by your theory ... we'd all be DEAD. Right now, dropped down dead.

Why do think all those kids survived all those childhood diseases? Their immune systems were making antibodies.

Please do some research. Good GAWD. Start here.

Biology for Kids: Immune System

Antigens and Antibodies

Scientists call the invaders that can cause disease antigens. Antigens trigger an immune response in the body. One of the main immune responses is the production of proteins that help to fight off the antigens. These proteins are called antibodies.

How do the antibodies know which cells to attack?

In order to work properly, the immune system must know which cells are good cells and which are bad. Antibodies are designed with specific binding sites that only bind with certain antigens. They ignore "good" cells and only attack the bad ones.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:24 PM
 
4,507 posts, read 6,165,404 times
Reputation: 4036
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
So you want to compare a disease that struck during a time where there was no indoor plumbing, no sanitation, no true hygiene, poor nutrition and dirty/cold/harsh living conditions with life in today's America?

Check your facts and return with an appropriate comparison to today's lifestyle and conditions. Because Spanish Flu 100 years ago in third world conditions? Ain't it.
What are you talking about?

There was hygiene, and good nutrition...no third world conditions in the United States.
It was just 100 years ago.
It would be even worse now with air travel. All the good hygiene in the world isn’t going to stop the flu when it’s primarily spread via respiration voa droplets.
It certainly didn’t stop it this year, did it?

Best way to avoid it is the vaccine.
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