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Old 05-05-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,459 posts, read 16,429,915 times
Reputation: 13164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You haven't been on many anti-vaccine, etc, websites. That is the main reason people choose alt. medicine.

"Doctors don't get but a few hours of education in (fill in the blank, usually nutrition and vaccines)".
You are assuming quite a lot here, about me and about folks who choose holistic medicine for serious issues. I know several people who are doing holistic treatment for cancer and none of them chose it because they think they know more than the docs and most of them use MD's for part of their care. Only one of them is dead set against vaccinating children and the rest of them feel that it's necessary from a public health standpoint. Some read websites like Mercola but don't use it exclusively for information, preferring instead to look at studies on NIH, or better yet, see a holistic physician with an MD behind their name. I believe you are confusing these people with those who have websites that are trying to sell fraudulent goods or ideas. Also, I do like Mercola's website and have learned much from it that I didn't know before and I look for studies with the articles, but I do not agree with his anti-vaxx stance. It's not like people buy into all or none...well some might do that but it's a silly way to approach something as complex as health care.

As for these people I know personally who are using holistic means to cure cancer, or at least stay alive longer: one woman cured her breast cancer years ago with holistic means, another is still alive with breast cancer 8 years past dx, one woman is alive 4.5 years past stage III breast cancer dx, one has lived 4 years after a dx of stage IV liver cancer, another has leukemia and was able to lower the amount of chemo she will have to use the rest of her life, and one has died. It's not exactly what you would expect is it? The biggest reason these people have given is either that they always felt that conventional care would hurt them more than it would help them and felt "led" into this choice and another big reason is lack of decent health insurance.

Anyway, this is not to derail a discussion but I think the biggest reason people don't choose holistic care, at least for more minor ailments, is the cost and the fact that insurance doesn't cover it, but as insurance costs go up, people may make the switch and find that it can be a better choice, esp for chronic ailments with drugs in the conventional world that have major side effects.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:57 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,459 posts, read 16,429,915 times
Reputation: 13164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You haven't been on many anti-vaccine, etc, websites. That is the main reason people choose alt. medicine.

"Doctors don't get but a few hours of education in (fill in the blank, usually nutrition and vaccines)".
Oh and btw, I've been wondering...how many hours of education DO doctors get in nutrition? I've been wondering if there's any truth to it or if it's just an oft repeated trope that keeps cycling around, over and over and over again.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,021 posts, read 98,892,281 times
Reputation: 31456
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka View Post
You are assuming quite a lot here, about me and about folks who choose holistic medicine for serious issues. I know several people who are doing holistic treatment for cancer and none of them chose it because they think they know more than the docs and most of them use MD's for part of their care. Only one of them is dead set against vaccinating children and the rest of them feel that it's necessary from a public health standpoint. Some read websites like Mercola but don't use it exclusively for information, preferring instead to look at studies on NIH, or better yet, see a holistic physician with an MD behind their name. I believe you are confusing these people with those who have websites that are trying to sell fraudulent goods or ideas. Also, I do like Mercola's website and have learned much from it that I didn't know before and I look for studies with the articles, but I do not agree with his anti-vaxx stance. It's not like people buy into all or none...well some might do that but it's a silly way to approach something as complex as health care.

As for these people I know personally who are using holistic means to cure cancer, or at least stay alive longer: one woman cured her breast cancer years ago with holistic means, another is still alive with breast cancer 8 years past dx, one woman is alive 4.5 years past stage III breast cancer dx, one has lived 4 years after a dx of stage IV liver cancer, another has leukemia and was able to lower the amount of chemo she will have to use the rest of her life, and one has died. It's not exactly what you would expect is it? The biggest reason these people have given is either that they always felt that conventional care would hurt them more than it would help them and felt "led" into this choice and another big reason is lack of decent health insurance.

Anyway, this is not to derail a discussion but I think the biggest reason people don't choose holistic care, at least for more minor ailments, is the cost and the fact that insurance doesn't cover it, but as insurance costs go up, people may make the switch and find that it can be a better choice, esp for chronic ailments with drugs in the conventional world that have major side effects.
There is a lot of quackery in cancer care, because many people feel a cancer diagnosis is hopeless; they fear chemo/radiation d/t lots of information and misinformation about it. The anecdotes are not impressive. I know many people who have been cancer-free from breast cancer for many years. My husband has some stage IV cancer in his liver; it was dx 5 years ago and he did not do any "holistic" or "alternative" treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka View Post
Oh and btw, I've been wondering...how many hours of education DO doctors get in nutrition? I've been wondering if there's any truth to it or if it's just an oft repeated trope that keeps cycling around, over and over and over again.
You will have to ask a doctor. I'm guessing it's just a trope.

ETA: Link about cancer quackery, from Canada so no one can complain about US bias. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/ca...rious-nonsense

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-07-2018 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:18 PM
 
1,478 posts, read 1,391,251 times
Reputation: 1991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Wow, you missed the fact that Magic Johnson was a black man who caught HIV in 1991 which was when many people were dying from it after it progressed into AIDS.

The only think that saved a black man in 1991 who had HIV from developing into AIDs, was a cocktail of medication only affordable to the rich, a strict diet only affordable to the rich, and strict exercise which the rich have all day to do as opposed to the poor who are forced to work blue collar jobs every day of their lives.

Poor black people in 1991 did not have access to HIV cocktails, perfect meals from chefs, and all day to exercise. They have access to crappy hospitals, fast food, and no time to exercise from their minimal wage job.

Even today, the HIV rate among blacks is disproportionate to other demographics. Half of all gay black males are expected to catch HIV, this means poor people aren't getting the healthcare they need or want to avoid such shocking statistics.


And the rate of AIDS among blacks is still increasing...
So my homeless drug addicted Aunt back in 1987 somehow struck it rich and lived another 26 years on the cocktail. Nope, Medicaid paid for her treatments until the day she died. Same as hundreds of thousands of other Americans with a positive diagnosis.

Investigate the reason why the AA community has a higher infection rate. It’s littlevto do with socioeconomic status and more about cultural stigmas and bias.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:42 AM
 
8,792 posts, read 2,339,656 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
My SIL passed away last year from Frontal Lobe Dementia at age 70. Not curable, all that could be done was medication to slow the progression. Eventually, it was going to spread to her involuntary brain bodily functions and she would die. She was on that for 5 years. When the progression did get very bad, both she and the family decided on only pallative care.

My BIL's Mom was at the wake. She just turned 103 and still lives all alone in the house she raised her children in with only a housekeeper coming in to help. Her daughter (74) lives down the street, helps her with cooking, and drives her places; as to the funeral 70 miles away. All his Mom needs is a cane to walk with.

My BIL is 77, takes no meds, and just recently had his first surgery (laser cataract). His older brother (84) came up from Florida for the funeral. He stood up or walked all around for the entire wake. Never sat down. Why not? "I play 18 holes of golf and swim all the time". I hadn't seen any of these people in about 30 years. They all looked pretty much the same.

Rich people? No, they all have very good genes, apparently inherited from their 103 year old Mom.
The bolded prompted me to think about John McCain's mother, Roberta.

If Senator McCain makes it to his birthday, he'll turn 82 in August. One page I read stated that a U.S. white male born in 1935 (the year before McCain was born) had a life expectancy at birth of 61.0 years (citing the CDC as a reference).

Even with having a longer than average life, McCain's own mother may outlive him. She turned 106 in February.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,459 posts, read 16,429,915 times
Reputation: 13164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
There is a lot of quackery in cancer care, because many people feel a cancer diagnosis is hopeless; they fear chemo/radiation d/t lots of information and misinformation about it. The anecdotes are not impressive. I know many people who have been cancer-free from breast cancer for many years. My husband has some stage IV cancer in his liver; it was dx 5 years ago and he did not do any "holistic" or "alternative" treatment.
I was merely replying to the charge that folks who choose holistic do so b/c they feel that they know more than the doctor. This is rarely ever the case. But yes I know some folks who are doing well on it and stated that it can work...not that it will.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:21 PM
 
18,927 posts, read 6,185,164 times
Reputation: 12731
There was a commentary on the radio today about the president's wife being in the hospital for like a week for a kidney procedure and if it were one of us it would almost an outpatient procedure. Or maybe an overnight. Yes, money does make a difference.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:54 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 3,370,127 times
Reputation: 13973
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
There was a commentary on the radio today about the president's wife being in the hospital for like a week for a kidney procedure and if it were one of us it would almost an outpatient procedure. Or maybe an overnight. Yes, money does make a difference.
Honestly, you're better off being an outpatient if you can swing it. Staying in the hospital longer than you need to is more likely to cause problems than anything else.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:41 PM
 
18,927 posts, read 6,185,164 times
Reputation: 12731
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Honestly, you're better off being an outpatient if you can swing it. Staying in the hospital longer than you need to is more likely to cause problems than anything else.
Well, that is for sure. I don't know why she's in Walter Reed so long. Has anyone heard her issues...I know a tad OT.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
4,642 posts, read 1,159,020 times
Reputation: 6639
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmed hour View Post
So my homeless drug addicted Aunt back in 1987 somehow struck it rich and lived another 26 years on the cocktail.
That's called an outlier, sorry for the breaking news. The stats don't lie, the rates of AIDS diagnosis are increasing especially among the poor gay black men.

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