U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 05-17-2018, 08:16 PM
 
1,470 posts, read 1,386,390 times
Reputation: 1983

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
That's called an outlier, sorry for the breaking news. The stats don't lie, the rates of AIDS diagnosis are increasing especially among the poor gay black men.
You’re talking apples to my oranges. The conversation was life expectancy after diagnosis due to current treatment options. Not new infection rates.

https://www.healthline.com/health/hi...ife-expectancy
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-19-2018, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Back View Post
George HW Bush has been in an out of the hospital for the last ten years. But he does not die. He has been in the ICU more times than I can imagine, but each time he survives and is still alive.

I wonder if a regular middle or upper-middle-class person using traditional health insurance going to regular doctors and hospitals would still be alive if they had the same health challenges of President George H W Bush. Or is he still alive because he is wealthy and has access to the best medical providers and hospitals and advanced procedures?

Think about the friends and relatives you know that died recently. If they had access to the best healthcare in the world, like George H W Bush, and money was no object, would they still be alive?
I am sure it has a lot to do with longevity but not everything. They are people living in poverty that are in their 80s and 90s. There are others, some of my husbands and my best friends who died in their 60s ad 70s with diseases that were not curable regardless of the money they have had to treat their conditions. In the case of people like George H W Bush of course his money has helped him stay alive. So though money can buy a lot and yes, people with it do stand a better chance at living a long life, it is just one criteria in the circle of life.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2018, 06:40 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,112 posts, read 10,150,825 times
Reputation: 4850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Back View Post
George HW Bush has been in an out of the hospital for the last ten years. But he does not die. He has been in the ICU more times than I can imagine, but each time he survives and is still alive.

I wonder if a regular middle or upper-middle-class person using traditional health insurance going to regular doctors and hospitals would still be alive if they had the same health challenges of President George H W Bush. Or is he still alive because he is wealthy and has access to the best medical providers and hospitals and advanced procedures?

Think about the friends and relatives you know that died recently. If they had access to the best healthcare in the world, like George H W Bush, and money was no object, would they still be alive?
My grandfather was an effing peon and lived to almost 92, despite being overweight due to a high fat and salt diet.

My grandmother was an effing peon and lived to 95, hardly ever visited a doctor and even those few were useless, never took pharmaceuticals.

Yes, money to buy access to high-tech health care and the best doctors helps, but there are so many other factors involved, starting with genetics: humans who survived the pre-industrial age spawned some pretty resilient DNA, including both my family and the Bush family, there's no difference; if anything, industrialization has allowed weaklings to survive, at least during the first 100 years or so (but that may reverse in the next 100 as they are replaced by robots).

Good Luck!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38641
Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
My grandfather was an effing peon and lived to almost 92, despite being overweight due to a high fat and salt diet.

My grandmother was an effing peon and lived to 95, hardly ever visited a doctor and even those few were useless, never took pharmaceuticals.

Yes, money to buy access to high-tech health care and the best doctors helps, but there are so many other factors involved, starting with genetics: humans who survived the pre-industrial age spawned some pretty resilient DNA, including both my family and the Bush family, there's no difference; if anything, industrialization has allowed weaklings to survive, at least during the first 100 years or so (but that may reverse in the next 100 as they are replaced by robots).

Good Luck!
yep, mother in law,from a working class farm family ate nothing but fat rich foods her whole life, thought every meal had to end in some super sweet desert and healthy foods like raw veggies and fish were awful lived to be 97. All of her siblings lived into their mid to late 80 as did her father. My father, though never anywhere near poor grew up on a ranch, was not a lover of doctors, drank at least 3 or 4 alcohol drinks a day loved his veggies cooked in bacon grease and died shortly after his 93rd BD.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,962 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31376
We can all give anecdotes. My inlaws lived to 97 and 98 respectively, which made my MIL a widow for 11 years, as she was 10 years younger than my FIL. Both were "blue-collar" workers. But, statistically, yes, the rich live longer.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...and-death.html
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,112 posts, read 10,150,825 times
Reputation: 4850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
We can all give anecdotes. My inlaws lived to 97 and 98 respectively, which made my MIL a widow for 11 years, as she was 10 years younger than my FIL. Both were "blue-collar" workers. But, statistically, yes, the rich live longer.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...and-death.html
As every individual who has ever lived, I live as an anecdote, not a statistic which do not.

Thanks.

Nevertheless, statistically speaking, almost every individual living today, at least in countries of early industrialization, is much wealthier than almost every individual who lived some 150 years ago.

That ain't no anecdote.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Boston
5,097 posts, read 1,455,542 times
Reputation: 3734
if money was the key to longevity Steve Jobs would be alive
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 08:32 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 1,593,575 times
Reputation: 12395
All the anecdotes and class narrative aside, it has a lot more to do with education levels and the resulting awareness of preventative measures such as diet and exercise, as well as avoiding unhealthy behavior. In other words, while the rich might live longer due to better care, the poor on average most certainly live shorter lives due to unhealthy living.

Need an example? Smoking. If you smoke, you are an idiot. There are just no two ways about it. An enormous body of research shows that smoking causes cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, and a hot of other chronic health problems. Every time you crack open a pack of Marlboros, you are practically sending an engraved invitation to the Grim Reaper to drop by any number of years before your Sell By date. The typical smoker can expect to cut his or her life expectancy by at least 10 years.

And I don't care how many anecdotes you dredge up about some grandparent who smoked every day and lived to 95. Statistically, if you smoke you'll die sooner and have more health problems before you die. And the more health problems you have before you die, the more it affects your finances.

Yet in the United States, those in the bottom income levels smoke at a rate 3x those making six figures. So if you are poor and blowing your cash on a pack of smokes every day or two, then you are stupid on two different levels. First, you're squandering your precious cash and, second, you're squandering your health.

And the same is true of excessive drinking, diet, and exercise. In those areas, those in the lower income levels are prone to drinking more and exercising less.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 05-20-2018 at 09:24 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38641
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
All the anecdotes and class narrative aside, it has a lot more to do with education levels and the resulting awareness of preventative measures such as diet and exercise, as well as avoiding unhealthy behavior. In other words, while the rich might live longer due to better care, the poor on average most certainly live shorter lives due to unhealthy living.

Need an example? Smoking. If you smoke, you are an idiot. There are just no two ways about it. An enormous body of research shows that smoking causes cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, and a hot of other chronic health problems. Every time you crack open a pack of Marlboros, you are practically sending an engraved invitation to the Grim Reaper to drop by any number of years before your Sell By date. The typical smoker can expect to cut his or her life expectancy by at least 10 years.

And I don't care how many anecdotes you dredge up about some grandparent who smoked every day and lived to 95. Statistically, if you smoke you'll die sooner and have more health problems before you die. And the more health problems you have before you die, the more it affects your finances.

Yet in the United States, those in the bottom income levels smoke at a rate 3x those making six figures. So if you are poor and blowing your cash on a pack of smokes every day or two, then you are stupid on two different levels. First, you're squandering your precious cash and, second, you're squandering your health.

And the same is true of excessive drinking, diet, and exercise. In those areas, those in the lower income levels are prone to drinking more and exercising less.
exercising less, true but I am not sure about drinking more. I have known a lot of people in the middle to upper classes that love their booze. yes, I am pretty sure lower income people smoke more if you are talking cigarettes but cigars seem to be gaining in popularity and they are not something you see people in the lower income brackets doing a lot. As for government studies I am not a firm believer they are always legit. Just my opinion.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2018, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,962 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31376
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
if money was the key to longevity Steve Jobs would be alive
Steve Jobs was an outlier. He thought he knew more than his doctors. Just because the well off as a group live longer, that doesn't mean all well off live longer than all lower-income people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
exercising less, true but I am not sure about drinking more. I have known a lot of people in the middle to upper classes that love their booze. yes, I am pretty sure lower income people smoke more if you are talking cigarettes but cigars seem to be gaining in popularity and they are not something you see people in the lower income brackets doing a lot. As for government studies I am not a firm believer they are always legit. Just my opinion.
You are absolutely right about the drinking, both here in the US and in the UK.
Drinking Highest Among Educated, Upper-Income Americans
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ted-drink-more
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top