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Old 05-02-2018, 02:35 PM
 
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George HW Bush has been in an out of the hospital for the last ten years. But he does not die. He has been in the ICU more times than I can imagine, but each time he survives and is still alive.

I wonder if a regular middle or upper-middle-class person using traditional health insurance going to regular doctors and hospitals would still be alive if they had the same health challenges of President George H W Bush. Or is he still alive because he is wealthy and has access to the best medical providers and hospitals and advanced procedures?

Think about the friends and relatives you know that died recently. If they had access to the best healthcare in the world, like George H W Bush, and money was no object, would they still be alive?
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:00 PM
 
18,807 posts, read 6,138,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Back View Post
George HW Bush has been in an out of the hospital for the last ten years. But he does not die. He has been in the ICU more times than I can imagine, but each time he survives and is still alive.

I wonder if a regular middle or upper-middle-class person using traditional health insurance going to regular doctors and hospitals would still be alive if they had the same health challenges of President George H W Bush. Or is he still alive because he is wealthy and has access to the best medical providers and hospitals and advanced procedures?

Think about the friends and relatives you know that died recently. If they had access to the best healthcare in the world, like George H W Bush, and money was no object, would they still be alive?
Well money can sure help the cause. I know if I had more money I'd be doing PRP/Stem Cells for arthritic joints. After my recent hospital/rehabs stays and left with some stacks of bills, I'd be in better shape with more money....so YES, more money can certainly help. And it's not the Super Rich, it's those very comfortable financially. But the key for ME, is spending my money on supplements and avoiding the docs and being sick. But with my latest issue, it was totally unexpected...totally.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 05-02-2018 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:11 PM
 
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Sure, I assume the rich do better on two counts: They go to better doctors AND they go immediately without having to second-guess their budget or their insurance.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:42 PM
 
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I don't have relatives or friends who died because they were unable to access first-class health care.

For example, the most recent death in my circles was my sister, who died at 67 of ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). The only treatment available would have been the insertion of breathing and feeding tubes. She could have had those, and would still be alive. She might even have lived a number of years longer (e.g. Stephen Hawking). However, she refused both because she did not want to be kept alive by machines. For her, that was not quality of life. It had nothing to do with lack of money or access, it was her personal choice.

I've had two cousins who died of cancer, who were not wealthy, but had high-quality treatment including cutting-edge chemotherapy. My female cousin, in particular, outlived the initial prognosis by some years. However, not even the best treatment can permanently keep advanced cancer at bay and even the wealthy die of cancer (see: Steve Jobs).

My dad is still alive at almost 94 and has survived early-stage melanoma, prostate cancer, and colon cancer. He's never been rich and gets his helth care through the VA, but he's doing remarkably well for his age. I can say, though, that he was never one to ignore early symptoms; he gets things checked out right away. There are plenty of much more wealthy people who blow off signs of disease until it is too late.

My opinion is that, yes, low-income people and those with poor health insurance may be more inclined to avoid doctors and may have poorer outcomes because of it. But even people with average incomes and health care will do better if they are proactive about their health than rich people who could get the best, but pretend their symptoms aren't there.

Last edited by saibot; 05-02-2018 at 03:59 PM..
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:47 PM
 
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what advanced procedures and treatments do you assume he's gotten that are not available to others?
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,965 posts, read 98,814,535 times
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Originally Posted by saibot View Post
I don't have relatives or friends who died because they were unable to access first-class health care.

For example, the most recent death in my circles was my sister, who died at 67 of ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). The only treatment available would have been the insertion of breathing and feeding tubes. She could have had those, and would still be alive. She might even have lived a number of years longer (e.g. Stephen Hawking). However, she refused both because she did not want to be kept alive by machines. For her, that was not quality of life. It had nothing to do with lack of money or access, it was her personal choice.

I've had two cousins who died of cancer, who were not wealthy, but had high-quality treatment including cutting-edge chemotherapy. My female cousin, in particular, outlived the initial prognosis by some years. However, not even the best treatment can permanently keep advanced cancer at bay and even the wealthy die of cancer (see: Steve Jobs).

My dad is still alive at almost 94 and has survived early-stage melanoma, prostate cancer, and colon cancer. He's never been rich and gets his helth care through the VA, but he's doing remarkably well for his age. I can say, though, that he was never one to ignore early symptoms; he gets things checked out right away. There are plenty of much more wealthy people who blow off signs of disease until it is too late.

My opinion is that, yes, low-income people and those with poor health insurance may be more inclined to avoid doctors and may have poorer outcomes because of it. But even people with average incomes and health care will do better if they are proactive about their health than rich people who could get the best, but pretend their symptoms aren't there.
There is that. Perhaps GHWB is like your dad. I would presume he (Bush) has Medicare, though of course he has enough $ to pay for anything extra his doctor suggests.

We have relatives on both sides who don't really have primary doctors. One couple just went to the ER for everything. Now one of them has lung cancer, which by the time it is discovered is usually too far along to treat any way but palliatively. Another got a sort of PCP when he had a heart attack.

Steve Jobs died because he thought he knew more than his doctors.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:23 PM
 
1,359 posts, read 652,296 times
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Originally Posted by Bad Back View Post

Think about the friends and relatives you know that died recently. If they had access to the best healthcare in the world, like George H W Bush, and money was no object, would they still be alive?
My BIL has been on Medicare for years, is not rich at all, and he's been in and out of hospitals constantly for the last 25 years, when he was told he had 3 years to live. He beat that, then got another kind of cancer, beat that, and now he has another kind of cancer. I believe he's out fishing in his boat today.

Seeing as how this man only has Medicare and is still alive and kicking 25 years after being told he was dying, I'd say money isn't the answer.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:27 PM
 
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I believe it was so different about 30 yrs ago or so,costs were lower, insurance was lower etc etc...today people are declaring bankruptcy due to doctor/hospital bills. Dad's employer paid for his lifelong insurance and today, that's not the case. So many companies gone from the U.S. to begin with. My sister died in spite of mega thousands in drugs given to her to help save her with MS. They didn't work. I have often thought if her husband is left with a load of debt but it's not my business. My folks both lived lived into 90's and had health issues and hospital bills but no debt when they died. I believe they both had Medicare and then dad's company paid for a supplement.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 05-02-2018 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
187 posts, read 106,358 times
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
There is that. Perhaps GHWB is like your dad. I would presume he (Bush) has Medicare, though of course he has enough $ to pay for anything extra his doctor suggests.

We have relatives on both sides who don't really have primary doctors. One couple just went to the ER for everything. Now one of them has lung cancer, which by the time it is discovered is usually too far along to treat any way but palliatively. Another got a sort of PCP when he had a heart attack.

Steve Jobs died because he thought he knew more than his doctors.


Steve Jobs died from pancreatic cancer that has an extremely poor prognosis even if caught early. A cursory Google search shows that the five year survival rate for pancreatic cancers that are caught early is 25%, so the odds were against him from the beginning of the disease. It's true he didn't necessarily follow the conventional medical treatment, and may have felt he knew more than the medical profession, but that isn't what killed him. He had a very deadly form of cancer. A good friend of mine died from the same cancer, despite having every conventional medical treatment the doctors recommended.

As far as wealthy people living longer due to better health care, I do think there are times when they can get better treatment due to their ability to travel to better clinics and seek out the top specialists in a particular field. However, I think just as important, maybe more important, is their ability to have in-home care. People fare much better in their own homes than in hospitals or nursing homes.

Of course the ability to afford regular check ups and routine testing also factors in, along with a person's genetic predisposition.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:40 PM
 
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My grandfather lived to almost 104 without any modern doctors because they hadn't been born yet.

Like Grandpa, G.H.W. Bush comes from hardy stock and would probably have lived a long life without special medical attention, but he has the advantage of money (he is rich but not super-rich) and having lived long enough that there are cures or treatments for the various things that ail him.
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