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Old 05-13-2018, 04:40 PM
 
2,298 posts, read 685,361 times
Reputation: 1997

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
This study brought to you by MADD. lol Ah, it is all one big joke. I think heredity plays a big part of it and everyone is different. These scientists seem to think all humans are the same. I got news for them. We aren't. For some alcohol is the best calmer you can get. Most in my family drink and most liver over 90. I think I will stick to what my family indicates, not some small study that means nothing to me.
That is a big problem with most medical research. All different types of people are averaged in. And there is nothing they can do about that. They can separate out certain types -- maybe males vs females, black vs white, etc. But there can be all kinds of differences between people science doesn't know about.

So we have to rely on moderation and common sense.

I hate to think of all the people who are still eating margarine, low fat yoghurt, and egg whites, because of defective past research.
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Midland, MI
485 posts, read 451,506 times
Reputation: 1026
There's something called "Winston Churchill" syndrome, in which someone drinks, smokes and lives an unhealthy lifestyle, yet lives until they are very very old. I always keep that in mind.

My wife's brother smoked and drank his whole life - he was an alcoholic. I kept telling her that with both alcohol and smoking as risk factors he wouldn't live very long. Well, in fact he died at 63 of natural causes. But you never can tell.
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
20,513 posts, read 25,010,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
That is a big problem with most medical research. All different types of people are averaged in. And there is nothing they can do about that. They can separate out certain types -- maybe males vs females, black vs white, etc. But there can be all kinds of differences between people science doesn't know about.

So we have to rely on moderation and common sense.

I hate to think of all the people who are still eating margarine, low fat yoghurt, and egg whites, because of defective past research.
That is not the way medical research is done. There are statistical methods that can control for multiple potential confounding factors and develop risk estimates. Statistics apply to groups, not individuals.

As individuals, we have to decide whether we want to accept the risks or not. Also, it is advisable not to make changes based on one study. Research needs to be replicated.

Dietary advice changes based on new data. That is the way research works. Would you want it to be any other way?
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:07 AM
 
2,298 posts, read 685,361 times
Reputation: 1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
That is not the way medical research is done. There are statistical methods that can control for multiple potential confounding factors and develop risk estimates. Statistics apply to groups, not individuals.

As individuals, we have to decide whether we want to accept the risks or not. Also, it is advisable not to make changes based on one study. Research needs to be replicated.

Dietary advice changes based on new data. That is the way research works. Would you want it to be any other way?
I'm sure I understand research statistics a lot better than you.

They can't control for things they did not think of.

Yes I would like it to be another way. Controlled research can help, once you know exactly what to look for. But doctors also need to pay attention to their patients, and observe patterns. A medical doctor who is intelligent and observant might notice things, after many years of practice, that no one had researched yet. Keep in mind that most things have not been researched.

We also should pay attention to our own experiences and take responsibility for our own health. There is no medical professional who cares as much about my health as I do.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
20,513 posts, read 25,010,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I'm sure I understand research statistics a lot better than you.

They can't control for things they did not think of.

Yes I would like it to be another way. Controlled research can help, once you know exactly what to look for. But doctors also need to pay attention to their patients, and observe patterns. A medical doctor who is intelligent and observant might notice things, after many years of practice, that no one had researched yet. Keep in mind that most things have not been researched.

We also should pay attention to our own experiences and take responsibility for our own health. There is no medical professional who cares as much about my health as I do.
"Our own experiences" are anecdotes, not data.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:09 PM
 
2,884 posts, read 2,101,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
"Our own experiences" are anecdotes, not data.
However, they are the most important things we need to consider when making decisions about our own lives.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:26 PM
 
2,298 posts, read 685,361 times
Reputation: 1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
"Our own experiences" are anecdotes, not data.
I really tried to explain to you why the data is not adequate. Maybe I have to explain it again?

Maybe alcohol is good for some types of people, and bad for others. When you analyze the data, you probably won't see that, unless you are specifically looking at those types of people.

This can happen with anything at all. The data will only provide information about the majority, or about sub groups you have specifically included in the analysis.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:28 PM
 
2,298 posts, read 685,361 times
Reputation: 1997
And furthermore, we should TRUST OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. Don't give your life over to "experts." It makes sense to ask their advice and opinion, but they CAN BE WRONG. If what they say contradicts your experience, maybe YOU ARE RIGHT.
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Old 06-02-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Olympus Mons, Mars
4,692 posts, read 7,743,165 times
Reputation: 4477
I'm trying to cut down from daily drinking a few drinks to drinking just on Fri/Sat... I plan to drink 2-4 drinks on Fri and 2-3 drinks on Saturday and then alcohol free Sun-Thu. I feel this would be low risk, opinions?
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, CA
16,075 posts, read 5,074,487 times
Reputation: 11000
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
I'm trying to cut down from daily drinking a few drinks to drinking just on Fri/Sat... I plan to drink 2-4 drinks on Fri and 2-3 drinks on Saturday and then alcohol free Sun-Thu. I feel this would be low risk, opinions?
Well, that's a start. I drank maybe one drink daily for years, mostly wine, but stopped it all. Do you take meds? Many meds say do not drink alcohol.
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