U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-16-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,116 posts, read 43,388,999 times
Reputation: 18501

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
To those of you who smoke, would you call yourself an addictive, habit-forming person?[/b] I know I am.
Yes, absolutely. I've never been interested in drinking much, even when I was a teenager and all of my friends were doing it... but I have always been tempted by drugs, including tobacco, and dabbled in the hard stuff for a short time too. Thankfully I was able to get out of the hard addiction without long-term damage (or much effort), but tobacco and cannabis are still my vices! I've also struggled with my weight since adolescence, but wouldn't call myself a food addict or anything. I'm just kinda lazy, lol.

But yeah, I guess you could say I have an addictive personality. Even with relatively harmless things like video games and television, I "go big or go home." Meaning that when I get into a game or show, I delve into it 100% until I'm satisfied, sometimes at the cost of sleep or productivity. Could be related to the fact that I have both ADD and OCD (diagnosed by numerous doctors), which causes me to HYPER focus to the point of obsession. I suppose it could be worse, since that hyper-focus and ability to multitask are actually useful in my line of work.

Quote:
So I'm wondering... could it be that people are BORN with habit forming personalities? Could this be the common factor?
There is definitely a genetic/biological component to having an addictive personality, which is why you see generations of alcoholism and addiction in some families. Even without going into the science of that, we can observe this in people we know. For example, I have friends who come from alcoholic parent/s, and can't just drink socially or moderately - one drink turns into a dozen, until we're literally carrying their semi-conscious bodies home. I, on the other hand, will nurse one or two drinks the entire night. Why is that? Because alcoholism is NOT in my family or brain chemistry, even though I'm apparently tempted by other substances. So it can even differ within the same person, depending on the substance or activity involved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-16-2018, 12:55 PM
 
33,108 posts, read 38,992,889 times
Reputation: 28434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
I think smoking is stupid and the people that do it are weak minded and too lazy to do the hard work it takes to quit. They all know that it is costing them a fortune and costing them years off their lives but they keep doing it.
Todd until youve experienced the addiction of nicotine you have no idea how strong that addiction is and how hard it is to kick the habit. took me 30 years to finally put an end to my own nicotine addiction and it wasnt because i was lazy, what ultimately got me to take quitting seriously was when a pack of smokes went up to over $10 a pack.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 01:03 PM
 
11,390 posts, read 5,475,766 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
They're not saying cigarettes are as necessary as driving - just that we do it knowing the risks, and are more likely to die in a car accident than from the effects (e.g. cancer) of smoking. I know the threat of lung cancer is thrown around a lot, but in reality it's not a high risk unless you also have a family history & genetic risk for cancer. Driving, on the other hand, is of equal risk to basically everyone who gets behind the wheel. And while public transportation isn't an easy option for everyone, there is always SOME option besides driving. You can ride a bike, walk, take the bus or train, or simply not leave your house/neighborhood as often. People do manage without cars, even in rural areas! But we give up safety for convenience, so it's a valid comparison of "risk vs reward" in this case.

Life has risks, unless you plan to live in a bubble 24/7. And while smokers are an easy scapegoat, nobody here can claim they've never done anything unhealthy or potentially dangerous. Nobody.
How do people in rural areas manage without driving? Obviously, they depend on someone else to take them shopping and to the doctor.

Ride a bike? Not easy in an area that isn't bike-friendly. Walk? Not easy in an area where sidewalks are non-existent. Take a bus or a train? How can that be done when there are no public transportation options in reach?

Speaking of public transportation, someone has to drive those vehicles. Should they all quit their jobs because the chance of getting in an accident is there?

Should everybody give up walking because they could get hit by a car?

Ummm...both my mother and brother were smokers and lung cancer killed them. It was discovered in my brother when he had trouble breathing to the point of turning blue. He was told that he had advanced emphysema (at age 56) plus pneumonia. Further tests found the lung cancer. Prior to that, there was no history of lung cancer in the family.

If not lung cancer from smoking, then COPD. Yes, there are those rare people who manage to live a long time who are smokers and escape either fate. However, most aren't so lucky.

As for me, growing up around smokers, I did try it and saw how people could get to like it. What kept me from taking it up was thinking about my future. I thought of what it would be like 20 years down the line coughing all the time and wondering if I got lung cancer. Most importantly, I knew that someday I wanted to have a child and didn't want to be smoking while pregnant.

Now that I'm in my 60s and having other health issues, I'm really glad that I didn't add smoking into the mix.

These days, I imagine it's harder than ever being a smoker. Most restaurants and bars don't allow it anymore. You can't smoke on public transportation---not even in the stations. The vast majority of workplaces are smoke-free. There are even apartment buildings and condos that don't allow it. People who own homes are free to smoke in their home. However, the advice is to not do so if you hope to sell it down the line.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,116 posts, read 43,388,999 times
Reputation: 18501
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
How do people in rural areas manage without driving? Obviously, they depend on someone else to take them shopping and to the doctor.

Ride a bike? Not easy in an area that isn't bike-friendly. Walk? Not easy in an area where sidewalks are non-existent. Take a bus or a train? How can that be done when there are no public transportation options in reach?

Speaking of public transportation, someone has to drive those vehicles. Should they all quit their jobs because the chance of getting in an accident is there?

Should everybody give up walking because they could get hit by a car?
Again, that wasn't the point... I think they were just comparing risk vs reward, and how smoking isn't the only decision we make with conscious knowledge of its dangers. If you were really worried about getting into a car accident (as some folks are), you'd find another way to get around. That's all.

Quote:
Ummm...both my mother and brother were smokers and lung cancer killed them. It was discovered in my brother when he had trouble breathing to the point of turning blue. He was told that he had advanced emphysema (at age 56) plus pneumonia. Further tests found the lung cancer. Prior to that, there was no history of lung cancer in the family.

If not lung cancer from smoking, then COPD. Yes, there are those rare people who manage to live a long time who are smokers and escape either fate. However, most aren't so lucky.
Anecdotal evidence isn't actually evidence. Sorry for your losses, but that doesn't negate my point - being that even a smoker is probably more likely to die in a car accident, and that other behaviors come with risks too. What are the chances of an obese person dying (or shortening their life) from related causes? But do people still overeat and not exercise? If so, why?

I'm not trying to claim that smoking is harmless, or that we aren't gambling with our health. I am just saying we shouldn't single out smokers, or act like it's the only thing anyone does while knowing it carries risks. Understand now? As for lung cancer specifically, of course it can hit anyone, but your risks are MUCH higher with a family history or genetic marker. That's fact, not opinion.

Quote:
These days, I imagine it's harder than ever being a smoker. Most restaurants and bars don't allow it anymore. You can't smoke on public transportation---not even in the stations. The vast majority of workplaces are smoke-free. There are even apartment buildings and condos that don't allow it. People who own homes are free to smoke in their home. However, the advice is to not do so if you hope to sell it down the line.
Yes, it is rather inconvenient, especially where I live (California). But I personally have a landlord who smokes, so he doesn't care if I do too. I was actually surprised when I asked about his policies, before renting the place, and he replied "smoke to your heart's desire." He is also dog/pet-friendly, which is becoming a rarity here as well. I guess I struck gold, lol.

Smokers will continue to smoke until they're ready to quit, though, which is why these regulations don't make a huge difference. It might keep the non-smokers more comfortable, possibly even deter people from starting; but I doubt it has a noticeable effect on those who already do it. I've literally gone through airport security again just to smoke during a layover, so if that isn't a deterrent I don't know what is! This is why it's called an addiction, and one of the worst at that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 01:54 PM
 
11,390 posts, read 5,475,766 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Again, that wasn't the point... I think they were just comparing risk vs reward, and how smoking isn't the only decision we make with conscious knowledge of its dangers. If you were really worried about getting into a car accident (as some folks are), you'd find another way to get around. That's all.



Anecdotal evidence isn't actually evidence. Sorry for your losses, but that doesn't negate my point - being that even a smoker is probably more likely to die in a car accident, and that other behaviors come with risks too. What are the chances of an obese person dying (or shortening their life) from related causes? But do people still overeat and not exercise? If so, why?

I'm not trying to claim that smoking is harmless, or that we aren't gambling with our health. I am just saying we shouldn't single out smokers, or act like it's the only thing anyone does while knowing it carries risks. Understand now? As for lung cancer specifically, of course it can hit anyone, but your risks are MUCH higher with a family history or genetic marker. That's fact, not opinion.



Yes, it is rather inconvenient, especially where I live (California). But I personally have a landlord who smokes, so he doesn't care if I do too. I was actually surprised when I asked about his policies, before renting the place, and he replied "smoke to your heart's desire." He is also dog/pet-friendly, which is becoming a rarity here as well. I guess I struck gold, lol.

Smokers will continue to smoke until they're ready to quit, though, which is why these regulations don't make a huge difference. It might keep the non-smokers more comfortable, possibly even deter people from starting; but I doubt it has a noticeable effect on those who already do it. I've literally gone through airport security again just to smoke during a layover, so if that isn't a deterrent I don't know what is! This is why it's called an addiction, and one of the worst at that.

I can see that you are very defensive when it comes to this topic. So be it.

Yes, there are risks in daily life. Those risks can't be avoided if one has to leave the house to make a living.

However, the risks involved that come with smoking can be avoided. It's a conscious decision to start smoking and a conscious decision to continue doing so.

I can offer up more "anecdotal evidence". With the presence of the internet, I've looked up those I grew up with, all that started smoking at a very young age. I was surprised to find so many have died of cancer or are suffering from it. Understand now?

Do you know your genetic history well enough to say that you have no genetic markers for lung cancer? How far back were you able to research this?

Eh...it all comes down to this --- you made a conscious decision to start. I don't know if you did this before the risks associated with smoking were publicized. However, it was you decision and you know that these days smoking isn't well received.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,116 posts, read 43,388,999 times
Reputation: 18501
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD View Post
I can see that you are very defensive when it comes to this topic. So be it.
We're simply having a healthy discussion, where you present one side and I present the other... that isn't being "defensive," it's called debating. I could accuse you of the same for not agreeing with my views, but that's a cop-out imo.

Quote:
Yes, there are risks in daily life. Those risks can't be avoided if one has to leave the house to make a living.

However, the risks involved that come with smoking can be avoided. It's a conscious decision to start smoking and a conscious decision to continue doing so.
As are many other health/safety risks, which numerous posters have cited here. Unless you can prove that smoking is the ONLY risk anyone knowingly takes, I repeat that smokers are unfairly singled out on this issue. And since you didn't like the driving analogy, we can easily re-visit the others that have been presented on this thread. Pick your poison, lol.

Quote:
I can offer up more "anecdotal evidence". With the presence of the internet, I've looked up those I grew up with, all that started smoking at a very young age. I was surprised to find so many have died of cancer or are suffering from it. Understand now?
Nope, because that still falls under the category of "anecdotal evidence" - as I assume your circle of friends/peers isn't a large enough control group to equal scientific evidence. But again, I never said smoking doesn't carry risks! I am well aware of the potential dangers, and how much it increases your changes of certain diseases. Still doesn't change the facts behind my statement, however, regarding the ADDED risk factors of genetic markers. Do you need me to post some research articles on that? As a reference librarian, that would be an easy challenge for me.

Quote:
Do you know your genetic history well enough to say that you have no genetic markers for lung cancer? How far back were you able to research this?
They have actual tests for this now. I haven't done it myself, but my (fully biological) brother had the panel done... and our biggest risks are for Alzheimer's, which my father has, and specific stroke conditions. I need to be aware of the latter, since smoking does increase the chance of stroke, but we have basically no family history of cancer.

Quote:
Eh...it all comes down to this --- you made a conscious decision to start. I don't know if you did this before the risks associated with smoking were publicized. However, it was you decision and you know that these days smoking isn't well received.
Sure, I am well aware of that... living in California, it's hard not to be! And I started in 1992 at age 15 (almost 16), when we knew it wasn't healthy, but it also wasn't quite the "taboo" it is today. Teenagers don't always consider consequences like adults, though, so of course I didn't think I'd still be smoking 25+ years later.

If I knew then what I know now, I never would have started. But I did, and now have to deal with the challenges of (hopefully beating) this addiction. I make no excuses for it, recognize how disgusting it is, and try my best to be considerate in public. On the other hand, I refuse to be a scapegoat, or to be accused of "weak-mindedness" for choosing the least popular of nasty habits. Sorry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 02:48 PM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 hours ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,045 posts, read 50,357,721 times
Reputation: 59832
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Todd until youve experienced the addiction of nicotine you have no idea how strong that addiction is and how hard it is to kick the habit. took me 30 years to finally put an end to my own nicotine addiction and it wasnt because i was lazy, what ultimately got me to take quitting seriously was when a pack of smokes went up to over $10 a pack.
Ding ding ding, same here. The MONEY was my catalyst to quitting after 35 years of smoking. I wasn't particularly concerned about my health, not even when I quit in my early fifties. Knock on wood, but I just haven't had many major health problems, and the one I did have came after I quit and was not smoking-related at all.

Doesn't mean smoking didn't do damage and that I'm not going to keel over from a heart attack, the favored cause of death in my family, because of all those years of smoking, but smoking didn't make me sick during the years I was smoking so it was easy to ignore dire health warnings.

When I quit, I felt as though I'd lost my best friend. It was such a feeling of pervasive sadness, and all it would have taken to improve the mood would have been a cigarette. And then another...

I made it, but it wasn't easy. Fortunately, I am one of those people who can hang out with other smokers and not want one. I will not smoke again, but I know how hard it is to give them up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 03:03 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 1,483,035 times
Reputation: 6041
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann View Post
At the end of this post, I have a couple of questions to the group.

I started biting my nails at a young age and chewed them down to the quick until they were raw and sometimes bleeding. In my mid-thirties, I stopped, one finger at a time. Even now, 30 years after I quit, if I get a snag in a nail, my finger goes into my mouth.

I smoke. I like gambling. I like my one or two glasses of wine at suppertime. I'm not obese, but I know I should lose 10-20 pounds and keep it off, but my problem is, is that I love carbs. I give them up when I diet, but always go back to them and then the weight goes back on.

I don't do drugs, but had the occasional puff of MJ when I was younger. Being so ignorant (back then) of hard drugs and addiction, I KNOW that I would have tried them if they had been offered. I am SO thankful they weren't around back then because I probably would be an addict (if not dead by now)

When I took up smoking as a teenager, it was becoming slowly known that cigarettes were carcinogenic. I enjoyed the few smokes I had each day and always told myself that I'd quit when I got married. Then I told myself I'd quit when I had kids. Well, it didn't quite happen that way. I was hooked. Still am.

Anyways, getting around to my first sentence... I know I have a habit-forming, addictive personality.
Was I born with this? Could THIS be the difference between people who take up bad habits and those who don't?

Both of my parents smoked. Four siblings in my family. Three smoked, one didn't. Why didn't the one smoke?
My husband's parents both smoked. Two kids, neither smoked. Why?
My girlfriend's parents: one smoked, one didn't. They had five children. Four smoked. One didn't. Why?

To those of you who smoke, would you call yourself an addictive, habit-forming person?
I know I am.

To those of you who DON'T smoke, truthfully, do you have ANY habits or addictions at all?

(I'm not asking you to list them. That is your business) Just yes or no.

So I'm wondering... could it be that people are BORN with habit forming personalities? Could this be the common factor?
There was a study that found that childhood traumas before age 11 would usually produce adult behaviors like smoking, overeating, spending and ones after 11 would produce behaviors like drug use, risky sex and violent tendencies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 03:24 PM
 
2,060 posts, read 781,459 times
Reputation: 4016
Kids don't understand addiction to anything and feel it won't happen to them. I believe everyone who tries smoking and continues to tempt fate WILL become addicted.



Why does anyone smoke? Addiction is why. What is addiction?
Short Definition of Addiction:
Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.
Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2018, 03:58 PM
 
11,390 posts, read 5,475,766 times
Reputation: 9791
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
We're simply having a healthy discussion, where you present one side and I present the other... that isn't being "defensive," it's called debating. I could accuse you of the same for not agreeing with my views, but that's a cop-out imo.



As are many other health/safety risks, which numerous posters have cited here. Unless you can prove that smoking is the ONLY risk anyone knowingly takes, I repeat that smokers are unfairly singled out on this issue. And since you didn't like the driving analogy, we can easily re-visit the others that have been presented on this thread. Pick your poison, lol.



Nope, because that still falls under the category of "anecdotal evidence" - as I assume your circle of friends/peers isn't a large enough control group to equal scientific evidence. But again, I never said smoking doesn't carry risks! I am well aware of the potential dangers, and how much it increases your changes of certain diseases. Still doesn't change the facts behind my statement, however, regarding the ADDED risk factors of genetic markers. Do you need me to post some research articles on that? As a reference librarian, that would be an easy challenge for me.



They have actual tests for this now. I haven't done it myself, but my (fully biological) brother had the panel done... and our biggest risks are for Alzheimer's, which my father has, and specific stroke conditions. I need to be aware of the latter, since smoking does increase the chance of stroke, but we have basically no family history of cancer.



Sure, I am well aware of that... living in California, it's hard not to be! And I started in 1992 at age 15 (almost 16), when we knew it wasn't healthy, but it also wasn't quite the "taboo" it is today. Teenagers don't always consider consequences like adults, though, so of course I didn't think I'd still be smoking 25+ years later.

If I knew then what I know now, I never would have started. But I did, and now have to deal with the challenges of (hopefully beating) this addiction. I make no excuses for it, recognize how disgusting it is, and try my best to be considerate in public. On the other hand, I refuse to be a scapegoat, or to be accused of "weak-mindedness" for choosing the least popular of nasty habits. Sorry.
So...you started smoking during the time when the risks of doing so were very well known.

If you refuse to be "a scapegoat", then you certainly do come off as being defensive.

I can imagine that smoking is costing you quite a bit of money I can't imagine it was easy for you to buy them when you were 15. Fake ID? Adults who bought them for you? Lax store clerks?

To compare smoking with whatever risks we take as we go about our day-to-day lives, is comparing apples to oranges. We have to go out of the house to make a living to pay for food, clothing and shelter. If we didn't do that, we would end up living in the streets which involves its own risks. There is a big difference with the risks involving day-to-day life and taking up a habit or hobby that comes with lots of well known risks. The former involves doing what it takes to survive, the latter is a conscious choice.

If you are serious about giving up smoking, where there is a will, there is a way. I'm sure it's not easy to quit. Every time I look back, I am so glad that I chose to not take it up. I'm even more glad now that I'm in my 60s and dealing with other health issues. At least, I'm not adding smoking to my health concern list.

You've made your points. I've made mine. Time to move on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:14 AM.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top