How to really prevent heart disease (infect, smoking, doctors, treat)

[Good4Nothin]

Originally Posted by Williepaws

Have any of you heard about the 5 Blue Zones in the world where there is a large proportion of centarians, active into their 80s and 90s, without the degenerative diseases of heart disease, diabetes, etc. Fascinating. And they arent taking drugs.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...the-blue-zones.

Yes, and they probably don't get a lot of medical checkups and screenings either.

[Good4Nothin]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

Right you are, with this part. The 800 lb gorilla in the room, that nobody is addressing, is blood glucose levels. It is well known by medical professionals that diabetics and prediabetics have higher rates of CHD than their non-diabetic counterparts.

High consumption of sugars and carbohydrates do have an effect on serum cholesterol levels, and not for the better. Obesity, especially abdominal fat, has been known to precede the onset of diabetes by a decade or more, and it is during this time that so much damage can occur to the eyes, the kidneys, the leg and foot circulation, liver disease, and arterial diseases.

Statin drugs just treat one symptom, not the whole disease. High sugar and carbohydrate consumption ARE the disease. Diabetes is just one result of metabolic syndrome. Treating the symptoms will not reverse the disease. The research is just beginning to point the finger at the true cause of our problems in this regard. Wean yourself off of sugar and excess carbs, and you may not need the statin drugs. Of course, pharma doesn't want people to know this, as statins are usually taken for the rest of your life ($$$).

The Mediterranean diet is just one of many dietary interventions that help address this problem. The ketogenic, paleo, and Atkins diets also help with metabolic disorders.

Yes, you are saying what I have been saying. This has been known for a long time, but somehow mainstream medicine ignores it.

[Good4Nothin]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

And I am the 125 lb gorilla in the room. High blood sugar even with low carbs, not obese, physically very active and predominantly healthy whole foods.

But you take certain pharmaceuticals, which means you do not represent the the average person who does not happen to take the same ones.

In general, the people with high blood sugar follow the typical American lifestyle.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Good4Nothin

No that's not it. Let's say an experiment is done, drug vs placebo, and both groups have the same mortality rate. That means people are not any better off if they take the drug. Even if the drug group has a better outcome in terms of heart attacks, or whatever is being counted, that does not matter.

So let's say I take a cancer med and it cures my cancer, but I get hit by a car..... I'm a mortality, but it has nothing to do with the drug.

[Good4Nothin]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

So let's say I take a cancer med and it cures my cancer, but I get hit by a car..... I'm a mortality, but it has nothing to do with the drug.

That would be just one data point. In an experiment, everyone in each group is averaged together. So it is not very likely that more people would be killed by cars in the drug group than in the placebo group. It all works according to probabilities.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Good4Nothin

That would be just one data point. In an experiment, everyone in each group is averaged together. So it is not very likely that more people would be killed by cars in the drug group than in the placebo group. It all works according to probabilities.

But there are millions of ways to die that could be unrelated to the treated disease, doesn't have to be a car crash.

[Good4Nothin]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

But there are millions of ways to die that could be unrelated to the treated disease, doesn't have to be a car crash.

It all averages out. That is how scientific experiments work.

For example, you have two groups and you give one group a drug for cancer and the other group a placebo (does nothing).

Then after a while, you check which group has a higher rate of cancer (this is just a simple example to illustrate a point).

Chances are, all the possible things that could kill people are approximately equal in each group. There is no reason to expect one group will have more car crashes, or drownings, or whatever, than the other.

This is because subjects are assigned randomly to one group or the other. Yes, weird coincidences can happen and maybe everyone in one of the groups just happens to be in a movie theater where there is a mass shooting. But why would something like that happen? I mean, it just wouldn't.

So the only systematic difference between the two groups is cancer drug vs placebo. Different outcomes between the two groups are assumed to be because of the drug.

If the cancer drug group has a lower rate of cancer, great for the drug company. But whoa, maybe there is less cancer but more liver disease (let's say, just for example), and maybe approximately the same number of subjects die in each group.

So then you have to think, well maybe this cancer drug is not the best idea after all.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Good4Nothin

If the cancer drug group has a lower rate of cancer, great for the drug company. But whoa, maybe there is less cancer but more liver disease (let's say, just for example), and maybe approximately the same number of subjects die in each group.

So then you have to think, well maybe this cancer drug is not the best idea after all.

Unless you are dying of cancer.

Like when I took methotrexate, got rid of my symptoms but I had an increased chance of liver disease.

It was an informed decision.

[ddm2k]

I think some of these remarks are not staying on track with the goal of the journal.

There's a difference between LDL causing CHD, and CHD mortality. Sometimes CHD is treated, and won't be the cause of death for that individual.

High LDL doesn't always lead to CHD. Sometimes despite high LDL in the bloodstream, arteries don't narrow any faster than others with controlled LDL. My grandpa was sent to a class by his doctor for Type 2 diabetes. He learned that excess blood glucose is what makes the LDL stick to the artery walls. The higher your blood sugar, the more easily it will stick.

"It takes two"

HIGH RISK:
- High LDL, High glucose

MEDIUM RISK:
-High LDL, controlled glucose
-Controlled LDL, high glucose

LOW RISK:
-Controlled LDL, controlled glucose

[Mikala43]

I also read that inflammation in conjunction with high LDL is more problematic.