U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: After reading the OP in full, what is your take on the current state of pain medication prescription
Pain relief medications are "too severely restricted" for legitimate patients? 120 71.86%
Pain relief medications restrictions are “where they should be” for legitimate pain patients? 20 11.98%
Pain relief medications restrictions are “not restricted enough” for legitimate pain patients? 27 16.17%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-01-2018, 07:11 AM
 
5,128 posts, read 5,848,980 times
Reputation: 8396

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post

It's YOU who are judging others by indeed "minimizing" their pain.....even after they've said that opioids are the only drug that relieves said pain.

For some reason that doesn't sit right with you.

I've no idea why.
Agree wholeheartedly.

Anyone can say that we have no idea the level of pain they have experienced, but that also means they have no idea the level of pain others have experienced.

There are loads of people who experience enough daily pain to make them uncomfortable, but not enough to be forced to curtail normal daily life, or, to wish they were dead. If you have not been unable to function because of pain, and/or considered suicide as a way to stop the pain, you have NOT experienced that level of pain.

These are the people who are convinced that others don't need as much pain relief as they say they need.

Doctors are very concerned that there is talk about writing maximum amounts of pain relief into law.

They say this is medically untenable. Human pain sensitivity and metabolism varies so much from person-to-person, that they have to adjust the pain meds individually. That is why it bothers them that anyone other than a doctor should get to decide how much pain medication a person needs.

If you are unwilling to hear what the pain doctors themselves are saying about this issue, you are just stubborn. They are the experts in the trenches, not you. They live this issue on a daily basis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-01-2018, 07:15 AM
 
2,658 posts, read 1,553,315 times
Reputation: 3207
Shooting stars I tried to rep you again but it wouldn’t let me. You are spot on!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2018, 07:24 AM
 
5,128 posts, read 5,848,980 times
Reputation: 8396
Quote:
Originally Posted by annabanana123 View Post

A couple good reads for those who are interested:

https://themighty.com/2018/11/opioid...edium=Facebook

https://www.practicalpainmanagement....in-prescribing

Both discuss how the vast majority comes from street drugs not legit prescriptions largely laced with fentanyl. Unfortunately many seem to be unable to differentiate legitimate legal use from illegal street use.

The fact is that chronic pain patients are suffering within under-medication due to the irresponsible actions of a few. The pendulum has swung too far in the other directions and it’s not even working as they hoped. Some pain patients are committing suicide over not getting their pain adequately controlled despite treatments existing that could. Also some of the street drug deaths are from those in severe pain who can’t get their meds legitimately but no one likes to talk about that. I have seen many stories to this effect on chronic pain sites and that concerns me.

Really we need a dual approach: 1) make sure pain patients are treated with compassion and adequate medications to allow them to function and live fulfilling lives and 2) treatment for addiction that is accessible and affordable with appropriate mental health counseling. Otherwise you might get them off an opiate just to replace it with a bottle.

There was over-prescribing and now there is under-prescribing so it needs to balance out, especially for those in long term, progressive, severe pain. We also need to be wary of first time prescriptions for patients and make sure they’re truly warranted while not penalizing the patients who have proven they can and will use responsibly as prescribed.
I mentioned earlier that most of the opioid abuse isn't from prescriptions. It's from illegal street drugs!

It fell on deaf ears.

And YES, some chronic severe pain patients are killing themselves because they can't get their pain treated. It's heartbreaking.

No one is advocating giving people pain meds they don't need.

We are saying the pendulum has swung too far, which is exactly what pain specialists AND pharmacists are saying. I stand with the experts on this.

I mean, damn, if you refuse to believe the words of the pain specialists and pharmacists, you are just stubborn.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2018, 07:32 AM
 
5,461 posts, read 2,352,417 times
Reputation: 15101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
I mentioned earlier that most of the opioid abuse isn't from prescriptions. It's from illegal street drugs!

It fell on deaf ears.

And YES, some chronic severe pain patients are killing themselves because they can't get their pain treated. It's heartbreaking.

No one is advocating giving people pain meds they don't need.

We are saying the pendulum has swung too far, which is exactly what pain specialists AND pharmacists are saying. I stand with the experts on this.

I mean, damn, if you refuse to believe the words of the pain specialists and pharmacists, you are just stubborn.
Amennnnnnnnnn.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2018, 07:40 AM
 
5,128 posts, read 5,848,980 times
Reputation: 8396
Quote:
Originally Posted by annabanana123 View Post

Shooting stars I tried to rep you again but it wouldn’t let me. You are spot on!
Thank you.

I have experienced the kind of pain that would have driven me to suicide twice in my life had it continued. The first time was in my thirties and the second time was two years ago.

Both of them were nerve pain, which is the worst. When I experienced the unbearable pain from the cracked tooth which had nearly split in half, shortly after I read that a lady in the U.K. had killed herself because of untreated tooth pain. I totally understood.

It is one of my greatest fears to ever be in a position where that kind of pain is long lasting or permanent, and I can't get relief. That's why this subject is so important to me.

Also a lot of people who need pain relief have life-ending illnesses like cancer. My grandmother had her eyes closed and wasn't able to speak when she was dying. One of the nurses noticed she was grimacing and upped her pain meds. But since the nurses couldn't look at her face 24/7, we started watching her face ourselves. When she would start grimacing, we'd get the nurse and they would give her more pain meds.

I was horrified to think what my grandmother might have felt without us there, as she had no way to speak. What a nightmare to be in such pain and have no way to tell anyone.

I think once you've experienced a level of pain that makes you want to kill yourself, it's like a permanent trauma. You never get over the memory and you are always fearful of a repeat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2018, 01:02 PM
 
13,408 posts, read 6,709,802 times
Reputation: 12875
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
Oh well....if Walmart says so.....NOT!!!!
? CVS and Walgreens are NOT doing the 7 day thing at all. Not even for acute pain conditions. Much less chronic pain. I was explaining how the 7 day thing works at Wal Mart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,719 posts, read 21,370,380 times
Reputation: 8934
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
They certainly are not. I got shingles about a year ago and got a whole wad of hydrocodone - so much that even I was surprised. And I also got gabapentin and some other thing as well - can't remember all of it, it was three or four prescriptions. The hydrocodone was at least a 30 day supply at four times a day. I looked up the street value when I found this bottle the other day in my safe - that bottle is worth about $1000 on the street.
I got nothing for my shingles that was so close to my left eye ball they thought I'd go blind. I suffered with massive headaches from the shingles (eye and head)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
This is very true but good luck getting this across - I've tried to clarify this many times to no avail.

THE SEVEN DAY PRESCRIPTION LAW IS ONLY IN REGARD TO ACUTE CONDITIONS. CHRONIC PAIN REQUIRES A QUARTERLY VISIT TO THE DOCTOR TO CONTINUE THE PRESCRIPTION. SURELY ANYONE EXPERIENCING ONGOING, CHRONIC PAIN IS SEEING A DOCTOR ONCE EVERY THREE MONTHS.
My pain management doctor that I've seen for 6 years (40 minutes one way drive) requires I go every month because of the laws in NJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I underlined the sections I am responding specifically to.

If a person has severe, chronic pain, maybe they need to compromise as well and go see a doctor once every three months. Honestly, what is the percentage of people with chronic, unrelenting, severe pain, who are never going to get any better no matter what medical advances come along, who live a great distance from their doctor, and who can only get prescriptions filled by a pain specialist? Come on, these are great exceptions, not the general rule.

There are people on this thread who swear that CVS and Walgreens (or one or the other) won't fill opioid prescriptions any longer, but by golly, I just had one filled a few weeks ago with absolutely zero issues - at Walgreens. I got the prescription for shingles filled at a local grocery store pharmacy, for pete's sake. No problems then either.

Frankly, considering the potential problems with opiates, I think some scrutiny is in order. Doctors and pharmacies were way too slap happy with them for far too long.

As for the "pharmacist" who hid his identity on YouTube and made those claims, sorry, but I need more concrete "evidence" than that before I believe a claim.
I also think where you live plays a part too. You may live in small town USA where there isn't a huge issue with the DEA.

As for Wagreens police, see my original thread from years ago how I was blackballed due to their guidelines on who gets pain meds and who doesn't. If I see a reputable pain management doctor, why are they questioning my scripts? They had an issue filling 3 oxycontin pills per day when 2 of a higher milligram would have been the same thing. My issue is they do not last as long as they should so I need it more often. My doctor knows this. I tried to explain it to the pharmacist but he didn't care.

Walgreens blackballing people on pain meds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
I don't know why the percentage matters to you, but 8%, which is 19.6 million have high-impact chronic pain. High-impact pain patients skew higher among people living in poverty, people on Medicaid or other assistance, and in rural areas. In other words, the very people who can least afford more doctor's visits.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6736a2.htm

EXCERPT: "In 2016, an estimated 20.4% of U.S. adults (50.0 million) had chronic pain and 8.0% of U.S. adults (19.6 million) had high-impact chronic pain, with higher prevalence associated with advancing age. Age-adjusted prevalences of both chronic pain and high-impact chronic pain were significantly higher among women, adults who had worked previously but were not currently employed, adults living in or near poverty, and rural residents. In addition, the age-adjusted prevalences of chronic pain and high-impact chronic pain were significantly lower among adults with at least a bachelor’s degree compared with all other education levels.

Whereas non-Hispanic white adults had a significantly higher age-adjusted prevalence of chronic pain than did all other racial and ethnic subgroups, no significant differences in high-impact chronic pain prevalence by race/ethnicity were observed. Similarly, the age-adjusted prevalence of chronic pain was significantly higher among veterans than among nonveterans, but no significant difference was observed in the prevalence of high-impact chronic pain.

Among adults aged <65 years, the age-adjusted prevalences of chronic pain and high-impact chronic pain were higher among those with Medicaid and other public health care coverage or other insurance (e.g., Veteran’s Administration, certain local and state government) than among adults with private insurance or those who were uninsured. Among adults aged ≥65 years, those with both Medicare and Medicaid had higher age-adjusted prevalences of chronic pain and high-impact chronic pain than did adults with all other types of coverage."



I already answered this.



No one is arguing against some scrutiny. We are arguing that the pendulum has swung so far that pain patients are being harmed.



Here ya go. This is from a web site for pharmacists: https://www.pharmacist.com/article/p...nts-controlled

This explains the monthly quota situation in detail, which is administered through the wholesalers. It tells you right here that pharmacists are turning away substantial numbers of legitimate pain patients when they run out of medicine. Some pharmacies are having to make decisions on who to provide meds for and who to turn away. New patients get turned away more often.

It also explains that when a patient goes to a pain specialist, they often have to sign a contract that they will only get their prescriptions from one specific pharmacy. If that pharmacy exceeds their monthly opioid quota and turns them away, they will violate their signed contract with the pain specialist if they go to another pharmacy and attempt to fill their pain prescriptions. As a result, the pain specialist may drop them as a patient for "violating" their contract. They can't win.
I've signed one ever since I've been with my doctor. Heck my old doctor even had one but he wasn't as bad as my current doctor with filling at the same pharmacy. It's a huge pain in the rear. I have to call my doctor when filling elsewhere and fax the receipt so they have everything in order if the DEA comes knocking. There have been days when I forgot to call; yet they called me because some how they found out my pharmacy was out!

Last edited by Roselvr; 12-02-2018 at 11:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2018, 12:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
10,719 posts, read 21,370,380 times
Reputation: 8934
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
But you know what - I'm done with this thread and the reason is not because I've been convinced by arguments but because it's futile to argue levels of pain with people who are in pain (as I am, every day of my life - but surely I don't know what "real" pain is - like I said, that's a futile conversation), and it's also futile to tell someone who is convinced they need something, that they don't need it or that there may be other options, or that a lot of people, and maybe even they themselves, are abusing a substance. I'm not saying that anyone here is an addict, or minimizing the pain of anyone here - but what I am saying is that the comeback is always, always "Well, until you experience excruciating pain, you can't understand." How does anyone know what level of pain I've experienced, and experience every single day of my life? One person's pain is another person's agony and vice versa. Pain and pain relief are complex issues that can really bring out the judgmentalism in lots of people, on both sides of the opiate question.

So thankfully I don't have to continue to argue this. So far so good for me as far as access to effective pain management (note that I didn't say relief from pain).
You're very fortunate you haven't been where we have. What are you going to do when you do experience what we are?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Yes I read the link. But it doesn't even touch on the burning question in my mind, which is WHY is our opioid prescription rate soaring so much higher than any other developed country in the world? Sorry but I don't buy that Americans are in that much more pain. And alongside that outlandish opiate prescription rate, we have much higher overdose rates, and much higher heroin use rates as well. THOSE ARE REAL PROBLEMS and developed in lockstep with the ever increasing opiate prescription rate.

We have a problem and no, I don't think that there's an effort to keep effective pain management away from patients. It's going to take some work but we have to start somewhere. Opiate use is out of control in this country and we have the death rates to prove it.
Just about everyone I know has chronic pain. With one family the grandmother, mother and kids are all on pain medication because they have a genetic condition.

Unfortunately our generations worked themselves so much that our bodies are broken.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2018, 03:21 PM
 
5,128 posts, read 5,848,980 times
Reputation: 8396
Roselvr,

That's awful.

It's awful for us too. All the Rite Aid stores in our area are turning into Walgreens as I type this. I just found out today when I went to return a cosmetic. There was a team of people rearranging the store and no one could enter unless it was for the pharmacy. On Friday, they reopen as "Walgreens".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-02-2018, 03:31 PM
 
13,408 posts, read 6,709,802 times
Reputation: 12875
Quote:
I also think where you live plays a part too. You may live in small town USA where there isn't a huge issue with the DEA.
I live in Dallas. Certainly not small town. It's the other way around. NJ is one of a very few states that is so strict.

Texas has its own regulations on controlled substances that are over and above federal as well, just (as most states) not as strict as NJ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top