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View Poll Results: After reading the OP in full, what is your take on the current state of pain medication prescription
Pain relief medications are "too severely restricted" for legitimate patients? 120 71.86%
Pain relief medications restrictions are ďwhere they should beĒ for legitimate pain patients? 20 11.98%
Pain relief medications restrictions are ďnot restricted enoughĒ for legitimate pain patients? 27 16.17%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-11-2019, 06:54 PM
 
4,378 posts, read 2,516,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
Since I last responded, Iíve had bunion surgery and took OxyContin every 4-6 hours for about 3 days. Then I didnít need it any more. The opiates are not intended for chronic pain.

The PA explained that when taken long term, opiates stop being effective. They are only intended for short term use. People start taking too much, and they stop breathing and die. My surgeon only prescribed enough for a week, but I did not use them all.

Now, Iím about to have another knee replacement. I will take those puppies around the clock for 3-4 days, but then Iíll switch to a non narcotic.

I realize how hard it is to live in pain, because I have been. Nothing, including 3 x 800mgs a day of ibuprofen, or Celebrex, or Tramadol keep me pain free, so Iím opting to have surgery to fix the source. I really donít know what chronic pain sufferers are supposed to do.
They may tell you its good only for short term, to give you tge idea that you wont get them for long.

I have NOT found the oxymorphone or oxycodone to be ineffective after a decade of use. Still works fir me.

Oh there are certain wet weather days they aren't that effective, but im in a greater amount of pain. But tye wet weather, depending on how wet, causes excruciating pain to me, and my OH, who has oxycodone also. At least thise days the oxys dull the pain. Most days it serves to eliminate the pain. And tyat allows me to function, work or do activities of daily living...ADLs tgey call them.

I will be very upset if they outlaw them all together. Ill even start or join a class action lawsuit.

The problem started as kids with serious injuries were prescribed them. Then they OD'd and died, or went and got hooked on illegal drugs. So it started as a "please, for tge saje of our children " routine, and no public figure wants ti be seen as callus to the pleas of a parent of a dead child. Then the media hysteria over it took over. Just like the sex offender business 20 or 30 years ago...media hysteria and parents pleading took it out of control. They found out within a decade all the thoughts on sex offenders werent as the media hysteria made it out to be, and nowadays, except for one arrested or the Catholic church issues, its largely forgotten and you don't hear about it anymore.

If all the politicians were in chronic continuous pain, they'd sing a different tune.

Even John McCain, when he got sick, changed his opinions on healthcare because he knew he had good coverage but many in this country dont.

For now i am content as long as i get close to a months supply.

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Old 05-12-2019, 04:43 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,468 posts, read 21,135,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Sadly, this was the goal...back when doctors were prescribing opioids left and right (mostly unrestricted), this was diverting ALOT of business and money away from the drug cartels, addicts didnt need the corner drug dealer anymore, they could just call their doctor or go into the ER and complain of a bad back and get a 30 day supply of Percoets!!


Thats why we saw the DEA act SO quickly to crack down on this, the cartels were loosing money.


Although now, today, we have heroin epidemics instead of painkiller epidemics! LOL What surprises me most about all this, is the 'Big pharma' industry just sat back and accepted this crack down (on their hottest selling drugs at the time), everyone says how big and powerful the pharma industry is, but in this case, they allowed the govt to come in and throw a wrench into a HUGE cash cow...generally when an industry has power or influence, they make it easier for customers to get their products (not harder).


IF I were you, I would file a suit against the DEA, unless you SPECIFICALLY listed them as being able to know what prescriptions were are taking, they are violating your Hipa rights (just knowing what your doctor prescribed to you), only your doctor and those you allow, are permitted to have access to this information.
The DEA knows what we take. Things are different now, those taking narcotics are in a database that can be seen from any pharmacy you go to
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
854 posts, read 938,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
Since I last responded, Iíve had bunion surgery and took OxyContin every 4-6 hours for about 3 days. Then I didnít need it any more. The opiates are not intended for chronic pain.

The PA explained that when taken long term, opiates stop being effective. They are only intended for short term use. People start taking too much, and they stop breathing and die. My surgeon only prescribed enough for a week, but I did not use them all.

Now, Iím about to have another knee replacement. I will take those puppies around the clock for 3-4 days, but then Iíll switch to a non narcotic.

I realize how hard it is to live in pain, because I have been. Nothing, including 3 x 800mgs a day of ibuprofen, or Celebrex, or Tramadol keep me pain free, so Iím opting to have surgery to fix the source. I really donít know what chronic pain sufferers are supposed to do.

In cases where surgery is not a viable option, like mine, I can easily understand how chronic pain patients often turn to suicide. Before coming down with what now they are calling cervical radiculopathy along with degenerative disc disease (but I wonder about the diagnosis) I thought I knew pain. I'd worked in a back breaking construction trade for 20 years, experienced a severely herniated disc, which I had fixed via surgery, lived through a couple of painful kidney stone experiences and had countless broken bones, tears in my skin requiring stitches and lengthy bouts of premature arthritis. None of that prepared me for what I'm going through now.

The only thing so far that makes my pain somewhat tolerable is 10/325 mg Percocet combined with 800 mg Ibuprofen 6X a day. In the past year, I've been on; Lyrica, Gabapentin, Celebrex, Meloxicam, Tramadol, Lidocaine patches, 2 unsuccessful epidural shots and Amitriptyline. The only one of those I could tolerate was the Amitriptyline and the only reason I still take that is because it helps me sleep. Even so, I can't go above 50 mgs of that unless I want to spend half the next day sleeping. Employers tend to frown at that.

The scary thing for me about using SSRIs, SNRIs or tricyclic antidepressants to treat chronic pain is that the actual mechanism of why or how these drugs help some people with pain is unknown. To me, that's saying they're affecting something in the brain. People's brain chemistry can be as different as individual DNA. There is no standard, no way to know what will work on who, let alone why.

According to my research, your PA isn't necessarily correct. That is still a heavily debated topic among pain specialists. I met a fellow the other day with a problem similar to mine and through a pain management clinic, he takes 6 Methadone pills in the morning and 3 in the evening along with using up to 60 mgs of Oxycodone for breakthrough pain during the day. That kind of regimen would kill most people before they got through the first day. But that's where his tolerance has led him when non opiate medications did not work at all. He still manages to run his own business successfully. Is he addicted? Absolutely, but if it's a choice between addiction or suicide, I'd say addiction is a much better option.

Unfortunately many doctors are running scared when it comes to prescribing pain pills. The new CDC guidelines are ridiculously restrictive. They're closing and barring the barn door after all the animals have wandered out, the hay has been eaten and the tractor stolen..............and it's the true chronic pain sufferers that get the short end of the stick. Pleasure seekers can simply graduate to street heroin (or a quick trip to a pill mill in Florida) while the folks who really need the drugs choose suicide as their only option when they're cut off or denied access to the only thing that gives them relief.

I'm going to see my pain management doctor soon where he will try steroid injections. If that doesn't work, I'll have to beg for a higher dosage of narcotics if I'm to keep functioning. I don't like it, but needs must when the devil drives. The future, with it's uncertainties, terrifies me. I'd rather fight an armed street gang with my bare hands than face a night of this kind of pain without any way to alleviate it.
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:24 AM
 
2,629 posts, read 1,499,199 times
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I’m also in a situation where my pain is going to be lifelong. Surgery created the mess (crps) and there’s no further option short of a pain pump or spinal cord stimulator other than meds. I've tried injections, PT, Aquatic therapy, psychiatric counseling (still doing this), desensitization, lifestyle modification etc. I’m considering paying for ketamine infusions because insurance won’t but they’re $5000 a pop and might last 6 months at best.

I take a cocktail of meds to minimize opioid use and take only up to 2 5mg hydrocodone a day. It’s not enough to take the pain away but it takes the edge off enough to sleep at night and function somewhat for about 4 hours during the day. I could live with pain at an 8/10 every day. It drops to a 6-7/10 with meds which may seem crazy but 6-7 is far more doable when working and parenting and all of the household chores. I think there are people like me who need these meds long term and when safely monitored by a pain management doctor (not a pill mill) they’re relatively safe.

A key thing to note is that addicts are often taking drugs to escape life while legitimate pain patients take them to participate in life.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:38 AM
 
9,784 posts, read 2,484,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
The DEA knows what we take. Things are different now, those taking narcotics are in a database that can be seen from any pharmacy you go to
They are violating HIPA privacy rights then. This is to protect privacy, so only the patient, doctor and those the patient ALLOWS, can access to this information.


When I first went to my current doctor, I had to fill out paperwork and list anyone I wanted to have access to what medicine I am taking, my diagnosis, test results, etc. I put my father and wife at the time, I did not put down anyone from the DEA.


Think about it, would you really want a federal govt agency having access to information in your private medical record?!! LOL
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:48 AM
 
9,784 posts, read 2,484,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
In cases where surgery is not a viable option, like mine, I can easily understand how chronic pain patients often turn to suicide. Before coming down with what now they are calling cervical radiculopathy along with degenerative disc disease (but I wonder about the diagnosis) I thought I knew pain. I'd worked in a back breaking construction trade for 20 years, experienced a severely herniated disc, which I had fixed via surgery, lived through a couple of painful kidney stone experiences and had countless broken bones, tears in my skin requiring stitches and lengthy bouts of premature arthritis. None of that prepared me for what I'm going through now.

The only thing so far that makes my pain somewhat tolerable is 10/325 mg Percocet combined with 800 mg Ibuprofen 6X a day. In the past year, I've been on; Lyrica, Gabapentin, Celebrex, Meloxicam, Tramadol, Lidocaine patches, 2 unsuccessful epidural shots and Amitriptyline. The only one of those I could tolerate was the Amitriptyline and the only reason I still take that is because it helps me sleep. Even so, I can't go above 50 mgs of that unless I want to spend half the next day sleeping. Employers tend to frown at that.

The scary thing for me about using SSRIs, SNRIs or tricyclic antidepressants to treat chronic pain is that the actual mechanism of why or how these drugs help some people with pain is unknown. To me, that's saying they're affecting something in the brain. People's brain chemistry can be as different as individual DNA. There is no standard, no way to know what will work on who, let alone why.

According to my research, your PA isn't necessarily correct. That is still a heavily debated topic among pain specialists. I met a fellow the other day with a problem similar to mine and through a pain management clinic, he takes 6 Methadone pills in the morning and 3 in the evening along with using up to 60 mgs of Oxycodone for breakthrough pain during the day. That kind of regimen would kill most people before they got through the first day. But that's where his tolerance has led him when non opiate medications did not work at all. He still manages to run his own business successfully. Is he addicted? Absolutely, but if it's a choice between addiction or suicide, I'd say addiction is a much better option.

Unfortunately many doctors are running scared when it comes to prescribing pain pills. The new CDC guidelines are ridiculously restrictive. They're closing and barring the barn door after all the animals have wandered out, the hay has been eaten and the tractor stolen..............and it's the true chronic pain sufferers that get the short end of the stick. Pleasure seekers can simply graduate to street heroin (or a quick trip to a pill mill in Florida) while the folks who really need the drugs choose suicide as their only option when they're cut off or denied access to the only thing that gives them relief.

I'm going to see my pain management doctor soon where he will try steroid injections. If that doesn't work, I'll have to beg for a higher dosage of narcotics if I'm to keep functioning. I don't like it, but needs must when the devil drives. The future, with it's uncertainties, terrifies me. I'd rather fight an armed street gang with my bare hands than face a night of this kind of pain without any way to alleviate it.
That was the goal all along! they are trying to create criminals where there were none before.


Its the reason why they are doing this that really upsets me...like any drug law of the past, they have absolutely NOTHING to do with protecting anyones health or safety...its about maximizing profits for the drug cartels an ensuring the US remains a favorable marketplace for them.


Without these opioid prescription drug laws, all the opiate addicts could just get their fix thru a doctor or pill mill (no need for the corner drug dealer anymore), which cuts the drug cartels OUT of the equation and the profits.


IF you really look into all the laws and regulations the DEA has had a part in creating...one thing becomes clear, they are benefiting the drug cartels! This really makes my sick to my stomach, knowing a federal govt agency is using taxpayer money to collude with, aid and abet drug cartels!
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
That was the goal all along! they are trying to create criminals where there were none before.


Its the reason why they are doing this that really upsets me...like any drug law of the past, they have absolutely NOTHING to do with protecting anyones health or safety...its about maximizing profits for the drug cartels an ensuring the US remains a favorable marketplace for them.


Without these opioid prescription drug laws, all the opiate addicts could just get their fix thru a doctor or pill mill (no need for the corner drug dealer anymore), which cuts the drug cartels OUT of the equation and the profits.


IF you really look into all the laws and regulations the DEA has had a part in creating...one thing becomes clear, they are benefiting the drug cartels! This really makes my sick to my stomach, knowing a federal govt agency is using taxpayer money to collude with, aid and abet drug cartels!


RS - Even though at first look this could seem like the ravings of a conspiracy nut, when you start to really looking into most of the alphabet organizations involved with American "health concerns" DEA, FDA, CDC and NIDA, a disturbing pattern emerges. It certainly looks like they are either protecting foreign drug cartels or protecting the pharmaceutical companies .......or both. Normally I wouldn't make an assertion like this without the links to back it up, but for me, it's a Really Bad pain day. I don't have the endurance to sit here and sift through a hundred websites to establish some credibility to these claims. What I do know about is the war on Kratom.

For those who haven't heard of it ; "Kratom is a tropical deciduous and evergreen tree in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) with a long history of medicinal use in Southeast Asia, particularly in Thailand or Malaysia.
In low dosages of a few grams of leaf, Kratom functions primarily as a stimulant, with effects similar to caffeine without the marked jitteriness of drinking several cups of coffee. In higher dosages, kratom functions as a neurological opiate, triggering the mu opiate receptors in the brain, even though kratom is chemically different from the opium derived medications such as codeine, morphine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone."

My wife and I have used Kratom on and off for over a dozen years. We are well acquainted with it's usages and results. The DEA & FDA tried to emergency schedule Kratom as a class 1 drug but a massive public outcry from chronic pain users forced them to table the motion. Kratom isn't an opioid but it does target opioid receptors. It does not cause respiratory distress and as far as I know, it's almost impossible to OD from. It's very self limiting in that respect. Use too much powdered leaf and you will develop a nasty case of nausea. You will either throw up, wish you would throw up or perhaps force yourself to throw up to rid yourself of that awful feeling. Kratom has been very successful in treating opioid addiction and even successful in treating pain issues that opioids can't. By trying to schedule this as a class 1 drug, the alphabet agencies also prevent medical research from exploring the plant's potential. Who stands to lose when a simple herb can replace a dozen pharmaceutical alternatives (think marijuana here also) - only the drug companies............and the heroin cartels.

I am a relatively new victim in the war on opiates, but it's a very quick education when you're suffering from severe chronic pain and only opiates seem to provide relief. Like most things wrong in America today, when you dig deep enough, things start to stink and that stink often smells like greed and corruption.
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:33 PM
 
9,784 posts, read 2,484,681 times
Reputation: 6687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
RS - Even though at first look this could seem like the ravings of a conspiracy nut, when you start to really looking into most of the alphabet organizations involved with American "health concerns" DEA, FDA, CDC and NIDA, a disturbing pattern emerges. It certainly looks like they are either protecting foreign drug cartels or protecting the pharmaceutical companies .......or both. Normally I wouldn't make an assertion like this without the links to back it up, but for me, it's a Really Bad pain day. I don't have the endurance to sit here and sift through a hundred websites to establish some credibility to these claims. What I do know about is the war on Kratom.

For those who haven't heard of it ; "Kratom is a tropical deciduous and evergreen tree in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) with a long history of medicinal use in Southeast Asia, particularly in Thailand or Malaysia.
In low dosages of a few grams of leaf, Kratom functions primarily as a stimulant, with effects similar to caffeine without the marked jitteriness of drinking several cups of coffee. In higher dosages, kratom functions as a neurological opiate, triggering the mu opiate receptors in the brain, even though kratom is chemically different from the opium derived medications such as codeine, morphine, hydrocodone, and oxycodone."

My wife and I have used Kratom on and off for over a dozen years. We are well acquainted with it's usages and results. The DEA & FDA tried to emergency schedule Kratom as a class 1 drug but a massive public outcry from chronic pain users forced them to table the motion. Kratom isn't an opioid but it does target opioid receptors. It does not cause respiratory distress and as far as I know, it's almost impossible to OD from. It's very self limiting in that respect. Use too much powdered leaf and you will develop a nasty case of nausea. You will either throw up, wish you would throw up or perhaps force yourself to throw up to rid yourself of that awful feeling. Kratom has been very successful in treating opioid addiction and even successful in treating pain issues that opioids can't. By trying to schedule this as a class 1 drug, the alphabet agencies also prevent medical research from exploring the plant's potential. Who stands to lose when a simple herb can replace a dozen pharmaceutical alternatives (think marijuana here also) - only the drug companies............and the heroin cartels.

I am a relatively new victim in the war on opiates, but it's a very quick education when you're suffering from severe chronic pain and only opiates seem to provide relief. Like most things wrong in America today, when you dig deep enough, things start to stink and that stink often smells like greed and corruption.
Yep, once you start to look at everything from this perspective, it becomes clear what the DEA and other narco law enforcement truly are!


I do disagree about them protecting the big pharma companies though, in fact the pharma companies are victims themselves...before the 2012 prescription opioid laws, drug companies were selling Millions of these pills, they were flying off the shelves, doctors were writing scripts for them left and right and in HUGE quantities....but once those laws took effect, it threw a big wrench into this, much less opioid pills were being sold now, that had to hurt the pharma companies profits significantly!


Think about it like this, what would the tobacco companies do if the Govt tried to create new laws that would result in cigarettes being VERY tough to buy or sell...naturally the tobacco companies would challenge those laws in court, because that is their industry, they rely on easy access to their products...


One would have thought, when these prescription opioid laws took effect, the pharma companies would have challenged the laws or at least fought them in court (remember how big and powerful the pharma industry is said to be?)....and yet, they did NOTHING of the sort, that doesnt make any sense,that would be like the beer companies being totally fine with alcohol prohibition being brought back!!


Some have said the pharma companies were paid off, to not fight the govt on these laws, but considering how popular opioid drugs were at that time and HOW MUCH money there was to be made, the pay off would have to been astronomical.


Its my opinion, everyone at the DEA should be tried for treason, and aiding/ abetting criminal organizations, they are worse than the criminal organizations actually, because they are abusing the US system of justice, in order to benefit drug cartels and ensure the US remains a profitable marketplace for them. In other words, the DEA are scum of the earth.
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Old Today, 08:43 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,468 posts, read 21,135,889 times
Reputation: 8300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Yep, once you start to look at everything from this perspective, it becomes clear what the DEA and other narco law enforcement truly are!


I do disagree about them protecting the big pharma companies though, in fact the pharma companies are victims themselves...before the 2012 prescription opioid laws, drug companies were selling Millions of these pills, they were flying off the shelves, doctors were writing scripts for them left and right and in HUGE quantities....but once those laws took effect, it threw a big wrench into this, much less opioid pills were being sold now, that had to hurt the pharma companies profits significantly!


Think about it like this, what would the tobacco companies do if the Govt tried to create new laws that would result in cigarettes being VERY tough to buy or sell...naturally the tobacco companies would challenge those laws in court, because that is their industry, they rely on easy access to their products...


One would have thought, when these prescription opioid laws took effect, the pharma companies would have challenged the laws or at least fought them in court (remember how big and powerful the pharma industry is said to be?)....and yet, they did NOTHING of the sort, that doesnt make any sense,that would be like the beer companies being totally fine with alcohol prohibition being brought back!!


Some have said the pharma companies were paid off, to not fight the govt on these laws, but considering how popular opioid drugs were at that time and HOW MUCH money there was to be made, the pay off would have to been astronomical.


Its my opinion, everyone at the DEA should be tried for treason, and aiding/ abetting criminal organizations, they are worse than the criminal organizations actually, because they are abusing the US system of justice, in order to benefit drug cartels and ensure the US remains a profitable marketplace for them. In other words, the DEA are scum of the earth.
That day is here where cigarette prices are sky high. We pay close to $9 a pack in NJ; the last time I tried to buy cigarettes in Philly they were close to $11 a pack.

As for narcotic manufacturers fighting things, that day is probably coming as I saw there are lawsuits starting with suing the makers of Oxycontin. I'll be interested to see what happens with that.

Five more states sue OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma for opioid epidemic Four of the states ó Iowa, Maryland, Wisconsin and West Virginia ó also sued the company's former president Richard Sackler.

Pennsylvania sues Oxycontin maker Purdue Pharma, says it targeted elderly and vets
"We are suing the giant, the pharma lord who created Oxycontin," Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro said at a Tuesday press conference.

Sackler Family Divided on How to Face OxyContin Lawsuits
Thousands of suits brought on by opioid overdoses have split the owners of drugmaker Purdue Pharma into two camps
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Old Today, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
That day is here where cigarette prices are sky high. We pay close to $9 a pack in NJ; the last time I tried to buy cigarettes in Philly they were close to $11 a pack.

As for narcotic manufacturers fighting things, that day is probably coming as I saw there are lawsuits starting with suing the makers of Oxycontin. I'll be interested to see what happens with that.

Five more states sue OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma for opioid epidemic Four of the states ó Iowa, Maryland, Wisconsin and West Virginia ó also sued the company's former president Richard Sackler.

Pennsylvania sues Oxycontin maker Purdue Pharma, says it targeted elderly and vets
"We are suing the giant, the pharma lord who created Oxycontin," Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro said at a Tuesday press conference.

Sackler Family Divided on How to Face OxyContin Lawsuits
Thousands of suits brought on by opioid overdoses have split the owners of drugmaker Purdue Pharma into two camps
Cigarettes may be super expensive...but access to them has never been restricted, anyone 18 and over can still go buy as many as they like, 24/7, (as long as they can afford it anyway).


If this was truly about MONEY, as so many people claim, why didnt the govt slap a sin tax on opioid drugs and to allow them to be given out to people like they were? Plenty of people were getting rich this way, Besides that, addicts on the street were willing to pay upwards of $120 for a single Oxycontin 80mg!!! I find it hard to believe a govt or company would move to restrict access to a cash cow like that!


Cigarettes are the ONLY dangerous product that has been proven to be deadly, but had NO restrictions on access, I looked at 2 other more recent products, one was bath salts, once a small percentage started abusing them and we saw some odd side effects (people acting like zombies), ACCESS was immediately restricted to bath salts, they were pulled from most store shelves at this point.


Another was the old 'mini thins' little diet/energy pills with Ephedrine, sold at gas stations and truck stops for many years...once high school athletes started abusing them and they had health problems as a result, ACCESS was restricted immediately, they were pulled from store shelves at this point.
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