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View Poll Results: After reading the OP in full, what is your take on the current state of pain medication prescription
Pain relief medications are "too severely restricted" for legitimate patients? 120 71.86%
Pain relief medications restrictions are “where they should be” for legitimate pain patients? 20 11.98%
Pain relief medications restrictions are “not restricted enough” for legitimate pain patients? 27 16.17%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-29-2018, 11:07 AM
 
50,309 posts, read 35,948,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
People trying to relieve unbearable pain are not stupid. They would rather have an opioid, but the government is making it too hard to get them. The main reason people are overdosing is because they are getting black market drugs contaminated with fentynal. That would stop if it was easier to get legal quality controlled opioids.
Also it’s not the caffeine that’s the problem with Tylenol, the problem is that Acetaminophen causes liver damage and even liver failure. https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/depression/2233
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:31 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,454,314 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
The main reason people are overdosing is because they are getting black market drugs contaminated with fentynal. That would stop if it was easier to get legal quality controlled opioids.
Yeah, no. But if you want to try and prove that with sourced go right ahead. That people with actual pain legit need for pain meds are the PRIMARY source of overdoses from having to turn to the black market due to regulations.
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:49 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,454,314 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Also it’s not the caffeine that’s the problem with Tylenol, the problem is that Acetaminophen causes liver damage and even liver failure. https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/depression/2233
Actually, Tylenol doesn't have caffeine. I was mixing that up with the generic of Excedrin. Which is what I take for headaches. We've been using Tylenol and acetaminophen interchangeably.

I wasn't saying caffeine is the problem with it I was saying it's not addictive except maybe the caffeine part a tiny bit. I'm usually waking up with headaches so I reach for the Excedrin and I am aware that I am after the caffeine as well as the pain relief.

Quote:
Studies have found that by adding caffeine to a pain reliever like acetaminophen (Tylenol) or aspirin, the pain relieving effect can be increased by 40%
I should probably deduce what sort of headache I have before reaching for it instead of ibuprofen, as 'Tylenol' even in appropriate amounts hurts the liver over time, and if memory serves ibuprofen doesn't have a cumulative effect unless one is taking more than suggested often (tear up your stomach).

But there is an 'addictive' quality also for reaching for the known relief rather than maybe.
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Old 09-29-2018, 04:56 PM
 
50,309 posts, read 35,948,319 times
Reputation: 76217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Actually, Tylenol doesn't have caffeine. I was mixing that up with the generic of Excedrin. Which is what I take for headaches. We've been using Tylenol and acetaminophen interchangeably.

I wasn't saying caffeine is the problem with it I was saying it's not addictive except maybe the caffeine part a tiny bit. I'm usually waking up with headaches so I reach for the Excedrin and I am aware that I am after the caffeine as well as the pain relief.



I should probably deduce what sort of headache I have before reaching for it instead of ibuprofen, as 'Tylenol' even in appropriate amounts hurts the liver over time, and if memory serves ibuprofen doesn't have a cumulative effect unless one is taking more than suggested often (tear up your stomach).

But there is an 'addictive' quality also for reaching for the known relief rather than maybe.
Actually ibuprofen over time can cause kidney problems. I actually think aspirin is the safest. Opiates are not addictive for everyone either however. Just like alcohol is not addictive for everyone but for some it is. Most people who take them for chronic pain become addicted to the pain relief, but the same can be said for Excedrin in that regard.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:28 PM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,454,314 times
Reputation: 19722
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
People trying to relieve unbearable pain are not stupid.
I maintain that they are. I have chronic pain and if 4 Tylenol won't relive it, neither will 16, so I stop at 4 and then bear it or go to bed or get a heating pad or one of those patches or a creme or whatever, but the 5th or 16th Tylenol will do nothing but harm my liver. I don't even like to take 4. 2 daily is more than enough for cumulative liver damage.

I usually go far enough to relieve only the headache and then deal with the rest. Would I like to go back on hydrocodone? Oh, indeed I would. And there is nothing in my way. I can go to pain management after my doc took them away. Or just go to another doc who isn't against them. This one said I could and would refer me I was like no, you just explained why you don't want me going down that road and I FEEL the road I'm on.

I wasn't taking too many, in fact I took much less than prescribed in part because a little goes a long way with me, and I do understand of course that is unusual. I know that I am abnormal in how low my tolerance is and that most people require a higher dosage.

However the concept is not different. The other reason I took less than I could is that there is no way to take it and ONLY get the pain reliving part. A listed side effect is 'false sense of well-being' and that is addictive, I don't care who you are. Anything gratifying like that is inherently addicting. Including the lowest level - caffeine.

Everyone's brain chemicals begin changing when one is introduced that hits the reward centers. Period. Everyone's dopamine receptors start making less on their own since the pills are doing the work and make it hard to stop taking the pills. Because now the brain can't deliver even normal amounts of dopamine, a necessary chemical to feeling well mentally and emotionally.

Quote:
When taken long-term and/or in excessive doses, hydrocodone users are placed at high risk for developing tolerance, addiction, and dependency—due in part to the feelings of euphoria that often accompany the pain relief
.

Quote:
hydrocodone does not work to decrease the source of the pain but rather to change the user's perception of the pain
.

Think about that. It doesn't relieve pain.

Quote:
Hydrocodone works to make more dopamine available in the brain, which produces this positive feeling. Once someone experiences this feeling, they will likely repeat the same behaviors in order to re-experience it.
https://drugabuse.com/library/the-ef...drocodone-use/
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:18 AM
 
21,108 posts, read 13,454,314 times
Reputation: 19722
Back to oxy. Why not just take heroin? That is what people used to do. Heroin was prescribed for pain. And it still is. It's just called oxy.

So everyone here saying that Oxy (or percocet which is oxy) is the only way to get relief is saying they need heroin. I mean.

I was watching that show 'The Knick' back in the day when cocaine was used for pain relief (and there still are scripts for essentially the same thing prescribed for ADD). The Dr got hooked and went to some sort of rehab where they had a different miracle drug to get him off cocaine.

I was like whatever this is is sure to be worse, and yup, at the end of the show the camera zooms in to the bottle of heroin (made by Bayer! A trusted brand!) on his bedside table.

I was like holy F! And yet Oxy somehow doesn't have the same response. It should. It does to me.

Tons of people clamored when Heroin was made illegal that it was the only thing in the world that would help them. This is no different. It was evil then and it's evil now.

75% of heroin users started on Oxy for legit pain relief. If that doesn't illustrate how dangerous it is, I don't know what to say.

Quote:
Originally, heroin was developed as a painkiller in the early 1900s after opium, morphine, and laudanum all proved to be too dangerous and addictive. However, heroin proved to be too potent, addictive, and dangerous as well, leading to the development of other narcotic painkillers
Which are the same, all of these come from the same plant. They are essentially the same. They just keep semi-synthesizing them in slightly different ways to keep marketing the same sht over and over. This goes for my hydrocodone too. That is a gateway to severe addiction too. It's all the same stuff, hydrocodone is less potent, but the same stuff.

Along with many others I thought hydrocodone is not a big deal. It's not OXY for God's sake. And Oxy users could say this is nothing like heroin. Um, yeah, it is. All opioids are. It's right there in the name of the class of drugs. OPIUM. There are people in Yemen hanging out eating the purest form of all - the poppy plant. Or there were before the war, anyway.

It's the same no matter how anyone wants to package or sell it. I still have some codeine I take now and then. I was given 20 for a cat bite and I saved them for when the back pain causes me to feel I simply MUST have one day/one night of relief.

I'm going to sharpie 'Heroin' onto the bottle and see if I still want one next time.

This is a good thread. Caused me to learn a lot. Someone upthread was surprised I was given hydrocodone for bronchitis.

Should not be a surprise. Bayer marketed heroin for CHILDREN with COLDS. They had to know even then the addictive properties. Changing a few molecules away from opium which was known to be addictive and dangerous.

And now here in 2018 the pharma companies are playing the exact same games. Re-structure a bit, re-brand, re-market it, and people will keep taking the same **** over and over into infinity.

Then you look at sleep aids. They do the same thing there too. People are still not convinced that Ambien is addictive because the ads say it's LESS addictive than benzos which were supposed to be less addictive than the class of drugs that came before them. Sigh. Less addictive is still addictive.

We're a nation of drug addicts.

Link to ad marketing heroin to children for colds, bronchitis , etc. AFTER it was known to them that adults were having serious addiction problems with it. Did they care? Hell no, get em young. Nothing is different today:


https://www.businessinsider.com/yes-...ove-it-2011-11
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:23 AM
 
6,288 posts, read 2,837,904 times
Reputation: 7207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Yeah, no. But if you want to try and prove that with sourced go right ahead. That people with actual pain legit need for pain meds are the PRIMARY source of overdoses from having to turn to the black market due to regulations.
Quote:
Nationally, numbers for 2017 are still preliminary, but the CDC expects opioid overdose-related deaths to jump to an all-time high of 49,000. Nearly 60% of those casualties are expected to be related to synthetic opioids like fentanyl and carfentanil.
According to the CDC, there were 20,310 overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids in 2016, and that number is expected to climb 45% to 29,400 in 2017.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/12/healt...ths/index.html

Quote:
While prescription opioid and heroin deaths are on the decline in Ohio, fentanyl-related deaths in 2017 were on the rise
Fentanyl-related deaths on the rise in Ohio | Ohio News | herald-dispatch.com

Quote:
Overdose deaths up in NYC; fentanyl most common substance ...
Overdose deaths up in NYC; fentanyl most common substance identified, report says | Fox News

Quote:
For the first time since the state started recording drug overdose deaths, fentanyl is the cause for just as many overdoses as heroin, if not more
https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...ec60e5d75.html

Quote:
Fentanyl Changed the Opioid Epidemic. Now It's Getting Worse
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...-worse-717847/

Quote:
The Opioid Crisis Is Now a Fentanyl Crisis
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...-a-darker-turn

Quote:
Drug overdose deaths jump again, and fentanyl is to blame
https://www.businessinsider.com/over...ntanyl-2017-12

Quote:
The national opioid epidemic escalated in 2016, driven by an unprecedented surge in deaths from fentanyl and other synthetic opiates, according to new data released today by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4bbbaa503143


Last edited by mascoma; 09-30-2018 at 11:32 AM..
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Wine Country
6,103 posts, read 8,775,052 times
Reputation: 12324
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
Back to oxy. Why not just take heroin? That is what people used to do. Heroin was prescribed for pain. And it still is. It's just called oxy.

So everyone here saying that Oxy (or percocet which is oxy) is the only way to get relief is saying they need heroin. I mean.

I was watching that show 'The Knick' back in the day when cocaine was used for pain relief (and there still are scripts for essentially the same thing prescribed for ADD). The Dr got hooked and went to some sort of rehab where they had a different miracle drug to get him off cocaine.

I was like whatever this is is sure to be worse, and yup, at the end of the show the camera zooms in to the bottle of heroin (made by Bayer! A trusted brand!) on his bedside table.

I was like holy F! And yet Oxy somehow doesn't have the same response. It should. It does to me.

Tons of people clamored when Heroin was made illegal that it was the only thing in the world that would help them. This is no different. It was evil then and it's evil now.

75% of heroin users started on Oxy for legit pain relief. If that doesn't illustrate how dangerous it is, I don't know what to say.



Which are the same, all of these come from the same plant. They are essentially the same. They just keep semi-synthesizing them in slightly different ways to keep marketing the same sht over and over. This goes for my hydrocodone too. That is a gateway to severe addiction too. It's all the same stuff, hydrocodone is less potent, but the same stuff.

Along with many others I thought hydrocodone is not a big deal. It's not OXY for God's sake. And Oxy users could say this is nothing like heroin. Um, yeah, it is. All opioids are. It's right there in the name of the class of drugs. OPIUM. There are people in Yemen hanging out eating the purest form of all - the poppy plant. Or there were before the war, anyway.

It's the same no matter how anyone wants to package or sell it. I still have some codeine I take now and then. I was given 20 for a cat bite and I saved them for when the back pain causes me to feel I simply MUST have one day/one night of relief.

I'm going to sharpie 'Heroin' onto the bottle and see if I still want one next time.

This is a good thread. Caused me to learn a lot. Someone upthread was surprised I was given hydrocodone for bronchitis.

Should not be a surprise. Bayer marketed heroin for CHILDREN with COLDS. They had to know even then the addictive properties. Changing a few molecules away from opium which was known to be addictive and dangerous.

And now here in 2018 the pharma companies are playing the exact same games. Re-structure a bit, re-brand, re-market it, and people will keep taking the same **** over and over into infinity.

Then you look at sleep aids. They do the same thing there too. People are still not convinced that Ambien is addictive because the ads say it's LESS addictive than benzos which were supposed to be less addictive than the class of drugs that came before them. Sigh. Less addictive is still addictive.

We're a nation of drug addicts.

Link to ad marketing heroin to children for colds, bronchitis , etc. AFTER it was known to them that adults were having serious addiction problems with it. Did they care? Hell no, get em young. Nothing is different today:


https://www.businessinsider.com/yes-...ove-it-2011-11
Your hyperbole regarding opioids is amusing. Until a better pain medication is made people who are in debilitating pain need their opioids. You calling them heroin doesn't solve any problems.
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 26,899,802 times
Reputation: 15644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyd609 View Post
Your hyperbole regarding opioids is amusing. Until a better pain medication is made people who are in debilitating pain need their opioids. You calling them heroin doesn't solve any problems.
Until we find another way for people to escape their lives or learn to be happy with "what is" without the need of drugs,booze etc this is where we are. I don't know that we'll ever get there as we've not yet after HUNDREDS of years.
Just wait as tech takes over more and more and people sit around doing nothing but staring at screens more and more, the need to escape from whatever (be it boredom or?) will skyrocket. Back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and before people were so busy just surviving they didn't have TIME to think about drugs and such, at least not at today's levels.
Just my opinion...

{P.S. The above is NOT referencing pain, it's a comment on why people keep taking drugs WITHOUT pain.}
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