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Old 07-08-2018, 09:59 AM
 
4,580 posts, read 10,392,339 times
Reputation: 10096

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Another preventative vaccine; not a cure for those already infected. Pointless since we know how to prevent it, safe sex and not sharing needles. Will this be added to the ever growing childhood list as well?
A vaccine to prevent a disease with extremely high morbidity and mortality is "pointless"???

Wow....just Wow.....

 
Old 07-08-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,469 posts, read 6,365,544 times
Reputation: 9265
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
The grape can't be patented so forget pharma making it a drug, for now anyway.
Another 'conspiracy' screed against 'big pharma' with no foundation in reality.

Can you patent the Willow tree? How about Foxglove?

No? Well, that doesn't stop them from making aspirin and digitalis now, does it?
You sure do post a whole bunch of silly stuff. (Pun intended.)

Many things cannot be 'cured', but the symptoms can be alleviated. Modern medicine does not promise to cure everything...but we are surely a heck of a lot better off with it than being limited to boiling bark and letting leeches suck our blood...not completely unlike the 'alt med' leeches sucking money out of gullible people for products that have no effect, but are allowed to be sold under the guise of the word 'supports', as long as they don't make any claims of 'curing' anything and don't actually cause any harm.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 10:19 AM
 
17,911 posts, read 5,777,720 times
Reputation: 12112
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Back to the OP:


Nobody is going to get out of this alive. We're all going to die. The only mystery is when and what cause of death is entered on the death certificate.



If a doctor could cure the first disease you present to him, you will live on to present with a second disease some day-- so he'll get a second round of profit. Ergo, the original contention that doctors make more money by not curing you is patently false. [BTW- the doc makes his money by just seeing you, not by what treatment he recommends.]



The fact is, most diseases are not "curable" but only "treatable" because most diseases have a genetic component that we are just now starting to deal with--"gene therapy."

Oh of course, we are all going to die, but I'd like to have a little more control over how I go out. How we did is not the point...my nephew left this earth at 5 yrs old. So.....

I choose NOT to go out all drugged with more and more toxic drugs as many do. One drug to fix the damage that the other drug did and it goes on and on.

My sister was given so many toxic drugs for the MS she dealt with and I believe the drugs killed her. Many people live long long lives and many do not take so many drugs. I know some....

My sister gave pharma probably a million during her journey. Yes, I'm angry.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 10:21 AM
 
17,911 posts, read 5,777,720 times
Reputation: 12112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Another 'conspiracy' screed against 'big pharma' with no foundation in reality.

Can you patent the Willow tree? How about Foxglove?

No? Well, that doesn't stop them from making aspirin and digitalis now, does it?
You sure do post a whole bunch of silly stuff. (Pun intended.)

Many things cannot be 'cured', but the symptoms can be alleviated. Modern medicine does not promise to cure everything...but we are surely a heck of a lot better off with it than being limited to boiling bark and letting leeches suck our blood...not completely unlike the 'alt med' leeches sucking money out of gullible people for products that have no effect, but are allowed to be sold under the guise of the word 'supports', as long as they don't make any claims of 'curing' anything and don't actually cause any harm.
Yes, the Grape and it's "guts" have improved so much of my health and it's not over for me so time will tell. So far I'm OFF all drugs for allergies and sinus issues. The GRAPE.

My stuff is NOT silly, if it is foods are silly. Nature is silly.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 11:54 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,538 posts, read 580,716 times
Reputation: 2976
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
A vaccine to prevent a disease with extremely high morbidity and mortality is "pointless"???

Wow....just Wow.....

Suzy was right: preventive behavior is free. Vaccines will be quite expensive at first and have side effects & failures. The $$millions spent on R&D would be better spent on education to change behavior.



Vaccines vs free behavior-- stupid.... just stupid....(but profitable)
 
Old 07-08-2018, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,538 posts, read 580,716 times
Reputation: 2976
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post

I choose NOT to go out all drugged with more and more toxic drugs ...

Excellent logic.


Pirate: Do you want to be burned at the stake or have your head cut off?
Curly: Oh, of course burned at the stake!
Moe: Why is that?
Curly: Everybody knows a hot steak is better than a cold chop. Nyuk Nyuk nyuk.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 12:47 PM
 
4,580 posts, read 10,392,339 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Suzy was right: preventive behavior is free. Vaccines will be quite expensive at first and have side effects & failures. The $$millions spent on R&D would be better spent on education to change behavior.



Vaccines vs free behavior-- stupid.... just stupid....(but profitable)

Really?? How has the "education to change behavior" been working out so far for HIV/AIDS??

Has the disease been eradicated when I wasn't looking???

"HIV continues to be a major global public health issue. In 2016, an estimated 36.7 million people were living with HIV (including 1.8 million children) with a global HIV prevalence of 0.8% among adults.1 2 Around 30% of these same people do not know that they have the virus"

Oops, guess not....

But surely there aren't many new cases since prevention education has been in place now for decades, right?

"Since 2010, the annual number of new infections in the Eastern Europe and Central Asia region, for example, has climbed by an alarming 60%.12"
https://www.avert.org/global-hiv-and-aids-statistics

Of course education alone could surely prevent any new infections right??

Because barrier methods of contraception are 100% effective, right?

Because perinatal transmission between mother and child has been effectively eliminated, right?

Just because 39 million people have died from AIDS since the beginning of the epidemic, I mean who needs a vaccine right??

https://www.bu.edu/sph/2016/11/27/th...en-of-hivaids/

Arguing AGAINST a vaccine for one of the biggest public health crises of the past 3 decades....stupid...just stupid
 
Old 07-08-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Central IL
12,980 posts, read 6,868,725 times
Reputation: 30155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Another preventative vaccine; not a cure for those already infected. Pointless since we know how to prevent it, safe sex and not sharing needles. Will this be added to the ever growing childhood list as well?
I always thought an ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure? I think your standards are jacked up.
 
Old 07-08-2018, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,628 posts, read 98,067,872 times
Reputation: 31049
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Suzy was right: preventive behavior is free. Vaccines will be quite expensive at first and have side effects & failures. The $$millions spent on R&D would be better spent on education to change behavior.



Vaccines vs free behavior-- stupid.... just stupid....(but profitable)
I think you meant Jo48, not suzy. bluedevilz answered the rest of that well. Let me just add re: prevention-partners can lie, accidents happen, rape happens. We've been educating, educating, educating re: AIDS/HIV for almost 40 years now. We shouldn't put all our eggs in the education basket. Why not both education and prevention via vaccine?

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-08-2018 at 02:16 PM..
 
Old 07-08-2018, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,203 posts, read 25,680,835 times
Reputation: 25975
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Oh of course, we are all going to die, but I'd like to have a little more control over how I go out. How we did is not the point...my nephew left this earth at 5 yrs old. So.....

I choose NOT to go out all drugged with more and more toxic drugs as many do. One drug to fix the damage that the other drug did and it goes on and on.

My sister was given so many toxic drugs for the MS she dealt with and I believe the drugs killed her. Many people live long long lives and many do not take so many drugs. I know some....

My sister gave pharma probably a million during her journey. Yes, I'm angry.
What evidence do you have that the drugs your sister took killed her? How do you know she would not have died sooner without them? Your "belief" does not make it true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Suzy was right: preventive behavior is free. Vaccines will be quite expensive at first and have side effects & failures. The $$millions spent on R&D would be better spent on education to change behavior.

Vaccines vs free behavior-- stupid.... just stupid....(but profitable)
Katarina already answered this, but I am the one that thinks preventing a disease is better than trying to cure it after it happens..

Most vaccines have few serious side effects. Failure rates vary. If the new HIV vaccine pans out - and I sincerely hope it will - it will take a while to confirm its effectiveness and what adverse effects it will have, if any.

People are still catching HIV, around the world, especially in poor countries with less access to medical treatment of HIV that is available here in the US. A vaccine would have to be unusually expensive for the cost to exceed lifetime cost of treating an HIV infection.
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