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Old 07-28-2018, 04:33 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 919,781 times
Reputation: 2570

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
On of the primary treatments for fibromyalgia is exercise. What is your point?
My point is that several MDs told me it was OLD AGE. And I was 30. I was responding to a comment about medical myths, that aches and pains inevitably result from age. (And heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc.)

 
Old 07-28-2018, 04:52 PM
 
4,618 posts, read 10,494,859 times
Reputation: 10291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I can get you plenty more. But you are obviously not interested in reality.
"Reality" AKA your "opinion" AKA "Longevity the (Non)Facts"

You have provided NOTHING but opinion pieces devoid of actual research and you continue to fall back on your tired, completely disproven MYTHS regarding infant mortality and lifespan....

Here is the crux of your argument stated in your OP ( and in a bazillion prior threads)

Infants and young people were much more likely to die than in our society, and that brought the average way down.

Here is where facts are not your friends....

This has been shown to you in the past over and over and over and you continually disregard it but unless you can disprove actuarial tables your argument is over, done, finished....

FACT: In 1850 in the US a white male child of 10 could expect to live to age 58
FACT: In 1850 in the US a white female child of could expect to live to age 57

FACT: In 2011 in the US a white male child of 10 could expect to live to age 77
FACT: In 2011 in the US a white female child of 10 could expect to live to age 82

FACT: Infant mortality is COMPLETELY irrelevant to these FACTS

https://www.infoplease.com/us/mortal...-age-1850-2011
 
Old 07-28-2018, 04:53 PM
 
954 posts, read 393,921 times
Reputation: 1627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
That is the story the medical industry wants you to believe. They believe it themselves, but it also happens to make them look good and to be profitable.
Think of how the medical industry would nose dive if people stopped believing they had to go to the doctor for EVERYTHING. It staggers the mind. I have so many friends who will go to the doctor for the slightest sniffle and take whatever medication they give them. Think how much better society would be if health insurance wasn't so expensive because people went to the doctor every 10 minutes and got expensive tests.

I am just grateful that in the last 10 to 15 years a wealth of information has come out on the internet and now I can find my own solutions and advice. I go to the doctor when I feel it is necessary but more and more it has become unnecessary. Thank god.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 05:14 PM
 
4,618 posts, read 10,494,859 times
Reputation: 10291
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
I completely agree with everything you said here. In my own life all my grandparents made it to 80 before kicking the bucket. How does that square with the medical myths that modern medicine is helping us live longer? My own parents made it to 80(s)... so...

I got annoyed last week when my neck hurt and a friend goes "welp... that is getting old for you?" Getting old? I snapped at her that I was 42 and that isn't "old", but her whole attitude was like, it is inevitable, just learn to take Motrin... that is the whole problem.
What "myth" is it that you think your little anecdote has disproven????

Your grandparents lived into the 80's....and????

People of have ALWAYS lived into the 80's difference is it where it was once 10% of the population it is now expected to be nearly 70 % of the population...

There are no "myths" involved here and despite what the OP would try to make people believe there are actual FACTS actuarial and life insurance data dating back now well over a century that disprove her distorted notions...

Of the people born in 1935 roughly 40% of the males and 57% of the females are still alive today in their 80's....that is a FACT, not a myth

Of the people born in the current decade, based on current trends and data, about 65% of the males and nearly 75% of females can expect to see 80.....

NOT myths.....FACTS
 
Old 07-28-2018, 05:17 PM
 
3,027 posts, read 1,206,807 times
Reputation: 5982
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
Think of how the medical industry would nose dive if people stopped believing they had to go to the doctor for EVERYTHING. It staggers the mind. I have so many friends who will go to the doctor for the slightest sniffle and take whatever medication they give them. Think how much better society would be if health insurance wasn't so expensive because people went to the doctor every 10 minutes and got expensive tests.

I am just grateful that in the last 10 to 15 years a wealth of information has come out on the internet and now I can find my own solutions and advice. I go to the doctor when I feel it is necessary but more and more it has become unnecessary. Thank god.
There is generally a shortage of healthcare professionals, not a surplus. I donít think the medical industry would se a nosedive if people stopped going to the doctor for frivolous reasons. In fact, services like the nurse helplines are becoming more popular with employers because itís cheaper for people to call a nurse to see if they/their kid need to go to a doctor than to have them sit at a doctor for something that is not really eligible for medication because itís a viral infection that is not dangerous to the patient. This allows the higher level professionals to be available for the more complex cases that actually need a doctor or a nurse practitioner/PA.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 05:23 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 919,781 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
"Reality" AKA your "opinion" AKA "Longevity the (Non)Facts"

You have provided NOTHING but opinion pieces devoid of actual research and you continue to fall back on your tired, completely disproven MYTHS regarding infant mortality and lifespan....

Here is the crux of your argument stated in your OP ( and in a bazillion prior threads)

Infants and young people were much more likely to die than in our society, and that brought the average way down.

Here is where facts are not your friends....

This has been shown to you in the past over and over and over and you continually disregard it but unless you can disprove actuarial tables your argument is over, done, finished....

FACT: In 1850 in the US a white male child of 10 could expect to live to age 58
FACT: In 1850 in the US a white female child of could expect to live to age 57

FACT: In 2011 in the US a white male child of 10 could expect to live to age 77
FACT: In 2011 in the US a white female child of 10 could expect to live to age 82

FACT: Infant mortality is COMPLETELY irrelevant to these FACTS

https://www.infoplease.com/us/mortal...-age-1850-2011
It is very hard to get you to actually read anything I write. I have explained that comparing longevity now to "then" is complicated and there is no straightforward way of doing it. Health and longevity differed between times and places. And there is no reliable data for the more distant past.

So depending what your agenda is, you can find supporting data. You chose to compare the early industrial era in the US to now.

Plenty of other comparisons have been made, which explains why the articles I linked had very different conclusions from yours.

It is also a fact that contemporary non-industrial societies have been found where people often survive to old age in good health.

It is also known that cancer, heart disease, etc., are diseases of modern industrial societies. NOT simply because other societies were less healthy and people died young.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 05:35 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,192,670 times
Reputation: 6627
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilyFoxSeaton View Post
I completely agree with everything you said here. In my own life all my grandparents made it to 80 before kicking the bucket. How does that square with the medical myths that modern medicine is helping us live longer? My own parents made it to 80(s)... so...

I got annoyed last week when my neck hurt and a friend goes "welp... that is getting old for you?" Getting old? I snapped at her that I was 42 and that isn't "old", but her whole attitude was like, it is inevitable, just learn to take Motrin... that is the whole problem.
That is the subject of many other threads. Medications for everyone. Opioids for pain. Pain in your neck? Did you sleep in a bad position? Run for the pain medication! No, work it out. If you turn your head to one side and it hurts, KEEP turning it that way. Forget the Motrin. It will go away.

No, aches and pains are not inevitable with age. What did people do many years ago? They did not drive to and from work, sit in front of a computer, and go home and snack in front of a TV. They were laborers and farmers working from dawn to dusk. They got a lot of exercise. Definitely not going through a drive through for fast food.

If you have used all those muscles with physical activity your entire life, you won't have aches and pain in your old age. Use it, or Lose it. I am almost 70. It horrifies my husband when I climb on to my kitchen counter tops to clean the top of my cabinets, and sometimes the ceiling. I'm petite and have been climbing to reach things my entire life. It's been years since I have taken Tylenol.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 06:00 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 919,781 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That is the subject of many other threads. Medications for everyone. Opioids for pain. Pain in your neck? Did you sleep in a bad position? Run for the pain medication! No, work it out. If you turn your head to one side and it hurts, KEEP turning it that way. Forget the Motrin. It will go away.

No, aches and pains are not inevitable with age. What did people do many years ago? They did not drive to and from work, sit in front of a computer, and go home and snack in front of a TV. They were laborers and farmers working from dawn to dusk. They got a lot of exercise. Definitely not going through a drive through for fast food.

If you have used all those muscles with physical activity your entire life, you won't have aches and pain in your old age. Use it, or Lose it. I am almost 70. It horrifies my husband when I climb on to my kitchen counter tops to clean the top of my cabinets, and sometimes the ceiling. I'm petite and have been climbing to reach things my entire life. It's been years since I have taken Tylenol.
The medical myth says the body naturally wears out. It does not repair itself. It's like one of our artificial machines, that must be repaired to keep functioning. So many are getting their joints replaced as they get older, because their natural joints wear out.

And most are taking drugs as they get older, because the medical myth says our bodies have no wisdom. We evolved by chance and most of the DNA is junk. There is no intelligence in the universe, outside of physical brains. THAT is exactly what modern medicine believes. All completely untrue.

Our bodies want to stay healthy into old age. Not everyone can, because there are genetic defects, serious injuries, and their are plenty of environmental toxins. But it is NOT NEARLY AS BAD as what the medical mythology tells us.

If you stay aware of your body, you can avoid most of the joint replacements and the painkillers. Most of the aches and pains are from the modern lifestyle, as you said.
 
Old 07-28-2018, 06:31 PM
 
4,618 posts, read 10,494,859 times
Reputation: 10291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
It is very hard to get you to actually read anything I write. I have explained that comparing longevity now to "then" is complicated and there is no straightforward way of doing it. Health and longevity differed between times and places. And there is no reliable data for the more distant past.

So depending what your agenda is, you can find supporting data. You chose to compare the early industrial era in the US to now.

Plenty of other comparisons have been made, which explains why the articles I linked had very different conclusions from yours.

It is also a fact that contemporary non-industrial societies have been found where people often survive to old age in good health.

It is also known that cancer, heart disease, etc., are diseases of modern industrial societies. NOT simply because other societies were less healthy and people died young.
I have read everything you wrote and linked in this thread I just disagree with ALL of it...

You continue to use unsupported unverified claims like "contemporary non industrial societies have been found where people often survive to old age in good health"....fine....you claimed it...now PROVE it...


YOU meanwhile dissemble when ever you are challenged with ACTUAL FACTS like the actuarial statistics I linked which show CONCLUSIVELY that people TODAY live longer than people did in 1850 even when controlling for infant mortality.....


I showed you where you stated in the OP to THIS thread where you stated that "infant mortality brings down the average age of death"

I then provided you conclusive evidence, factual evidence, not opinion pieces like you linked and you just ignore it and try to move the goal posts...

Typical response.....
 
Old 07-28-2018, 06:42 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 919,781 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
I have read everything you wrote and linked in this thread I just disagree with ALL of it...

You continue to use unsupported unverified claims like "contemporary non industrial societies have been found where people often survive to old age in good health"....fine....you claimed it...now PROVE it...


YOU meanwhile dissemble when ever you are challenged with ACTUAL FACTS like the actuarial statistics I linked which show CONCLUSIVELY that people TODAY live longer than people did in 1850 even when controlling for infant mortality.....


I showed you where you stated in the OP to THIS thread where you stated that "infant mortality brings down the average age of death"

I then provided you conclusive evidence, factual evidence, not opinion pieces like you linked and you just ignore it and try to move the goal posts...

Typical response.....
What you provided is not conclusive! As I said, you chose to compare to one time and place, when there are many others you could compare to. And your article did not specify urban vs rural, poor vs prosperous. Things that really matter are not considered. Because the agenda is to show that modern medicine is keeping us alive.

You are an angry advocate for the medical system. I have said, over and over and over, that our medical system does provide some things that some of us sometimes need. But it is extremely limited, and millions are suffering. There are NO simple answers. But what I am doing here is trying to show that there is a mythology. That things can be framed in different ways, and we should try to look beyond those frames.
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