U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-04-2018, 02:39 PM
 
4,618 posts, read 10,497,588 times
Reputation: 10291

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I see nothing but anger and impatience in your comments on this and similar threads. I see no attempt to be rational.

My "agenda" is to criticize some aspects of mainstream medicine that many people feel need to be criticized.

Your "agenda" is to defend all aspects of mainstream medicine.

Sure, some MDs prefer how it used to be, when hardly any patients questioned them.
Right back at ya

You just described your own posts exactly...

Your agenda is to work the word "statin" into every conversation whether warranted or not...

You continue to make the same false claims regarding the relative importance of infant mortality in determining life expectancy despite having been proven wrong over and over and over...

You don't understand the concept of metabolic syndrome but seem to think it explains ALL of life's ills...

You have this completely irrational belief that if people just KNEW better about how their lifestyle choices are affecting their health everyone would just put down the twinkies and cigarettes and start training for marathons.....news flash THEY DO KNOW BETTER.....THEY JUST DON'T CARE.....

There is never any "rational discourse" on any of these carbon copy threads you start every time one just like it gets shut down....because YOU are completely irrational....

 
Old 08-04-2018, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,485 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
You keep harping on Loma Linda and ignoring the top three.
Ikaria, Greece has a hospital.

Ikaria Visitor Info - Facts - Figures - Useful Information - About Ikaria

"The main hospital of Ikaria is located in Agios Kirikos. The hospital is in general fully staffed and equipped to handle most medical emergencies, although serious cases are sometimes airlifted to neighboring Samos or even to Athens depending on the circumstances. There are also medical clinics located in Evdilos and Christos-Raches and pharmacies located throughout the island. A network of private doctors specializing in various fields of medicine also practice in Ikaria."

Okinawa not only has access to medical care, it has a medical school, as I already told you.

Sardinia has health care provided under Italy's National Health Service.

Your statement that "Almost every grp of these people do not have access to modern med." is still false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
And you refuse to accept the side effects of many drugs and treatments. So if cipro extends your life by curing an infection but disables the patient for the rest of their life thats ok? The life was extended no matter the outcome to the patient? Or how about open heart surgery and the memory problems produced afterward that can ruin someones life? Thats ok because we extended their life no matter the cost to the patient? Man, west med is everything to you and can do no wrong. Patients dont really matter only life dxtensions. Geesh!
Where have I refused to accept that drugs and treatments have side effects? Of course they do. Anyone who takes a medication or undergoes a treatment needs to understand the benefits and risks beforehand. It is up to the individual patient and his physician to run the benefit to risk analysis. I might still choose to use Cipro for a serious infection and you might not. I might accept the risks of coronary bypass surgery and you might not. However, I would want to find someone to do my bypass procedure who could do it without using the heart/lung machine.

That my choice is different from yours does not make one of us wrong and one of us right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
Yes, but you are being reasonable. The other poster comes across that western med drugs and treatment can do no wrong.
The "other poster" has said no such thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
My best friend's life was saved at age 50, with coronary bypass surgery. He had type 2 diabetes since his 30s, because he knew nothing about healthy lifestyles, and his medical doctors just gave him pills.

I was grateful that his life was saved, but it would have been so much better if he had been educated about lifestyle. I tried to convince him to exercise A LOT and to avoid carbohydrates, but he believed his medical doctors instead (120 minutes per week of exercise, low fat diet).

The surgery, and many drugs, prolonged his life until just recently. But he was in pain and often wound up in the hospital. Always going to doctors, having tests, ongoing pain and disability and frustration.

Yes, modern medicine saved his life and gave me an extra 15 years with him. But it would have been so much better if he were alive and healthy and still with me now. I can't describe how much I miss him, and that is one reason I am so motivated to educate people.

The moral is -- do whatever you can to prevent these awful diseases. Don't assume that modern medicine will make you healthy. It won't. It might prolong your life, and give you a second chance, but it will not restore your health.
Did you sit in on his visits with his doctor? If not, you do not know what his doctor told him, do you? What he remembers may not be what he was actually told. Diet and exercise are integral parts of the rehabilitation process after coronary bypass surgery. Your pushing him to exercise more than his doctors advised might actually have exceeded what was safe for him to do. The current dietary recommendations emphasize the type of fat consumed, not the quantity, except as needed to control energy intake and prevent obesity. They also advise limiting sugar. Since your friend was diabetic I am 100% certain he had been counseled about diet.

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/re...ond-the-basics

"Exercise — During cardiac rehabilitation, a trained clinician will work with the patient and the patient’s main healthcare provider to develop an exercise program that is safe and beneficial. The program will consider the patient's fitness level, heart health, any physical limitations, the amount, intensity and duration of exercise needed to improve heart health, and the need for supervision."

"Follow a heart healthy diet — Diet counseling is helpful for people who need to lose weight or reduce cholesterol levels. A registered dietitian is the best person to consult about foods that are helpful and harmful, appropriate portion sizes, total calorie recommendations, and realistic ways to change bad eating habits. In general, a heart healthy diet involves substituting veal, lean meat, poultry, seafood, whole grain pasta, lentils, corn, rice, beans, nuts, or vegetarian dishes for fatty meats, cream, cheese, and high sugar or high refined carbohydrate foods. Sugar is a hidden ingredient in many prepared foods and is as unhealthy as high fat food. It is common for "low fat" foods to have high sugar content and therefore similar calorie content."

Your entire anecdote is based on erroneous assumptions about the postoperative care of coronary bypass patients. At some point your friend failed to take responsibility for his own health. His doctor could not make him do that any more than you could.

The link also discusses the meds used and the reasons for using them. They are not prescribed just to make money for drug companies.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 03:29 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 922,918 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post


Did you sit in on his visits with his doctor? If not, you do not know what his doctor told him, do you? What he remembers may not be what he was actually told. Diet and exercise are integral parts of the rehabilitation process after coronary bypass surgery. Your pushing him to exercise more than his doctors advised might actually have exceeded what was safe for him to do. The current dietary recommendations emphasize the type of fat consumed, not the quantity, except as needed to control energy intake and prevent obesity. They also advise limiting sugar. Since your friend was diabetic I am 100% certain he had been counseled about diet.

https://www.uptodate.com/contents/re...ond-the-basics

"Exercise — During cardiac rehabilitation, a trained clinician will work with the patient and the patient’s main healthcare provider to develop an exercise program that is safe and beneficial. The program will consider the patient's fitness level, heart health, any physical limitations, the amount, intensity and duration of exercise needed to improve heart health, and the need for supervision."

"Follow a heart healthy diet — Diet counseling is helpful for people who need to lose weight or reduce cholesterol levels. A registered dietitian is the best person to consult about foods that are helpful and harmful, appropriate portion sizes, total calorie recommendations, and realistic ways to change bad eating habits. In general, a heart healthy diet involves substituting veal, lean meat, poultry, seafood, whole grain pasta, lentils, corn, rice, beans, nuts, or vegetarian dishes for fatty meats, cream, cheese, and high sugar or high refined carbohydrate foods. Sugar is a hidden ingredient in many prepared foods and is as unhealthy as high fat food. It is common for "low fat" foods to have high sugar content and therefore similar calorie content."

Your entire anecdote is based on erroneous assumptions about the postoperative care of coronary bypass patients. At some point your friend failed to take responsibility for his own health. His doctor could not make him do that any more than you could.

The link also discusses the meds used and the reasons for using them. They are not prescribed just to make money for drug companies.
LONG BEFORE he ever got heart disease, his doctors should have been informing him that drugs do not cure diabetes 2. And they should have been informing him that it can be reversed or greatly improved by lifestyle changes.

No, I don't think my friend was lying to me about what his doctors told him.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 03:30 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 922,918 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
You can dish it out but you can't take it.

You may be able to wear people down in real life which makes you think you have won an argument. But glib misrepresentations, and outright misunderstanding of research and research methods coupled with ad nauseum repetitions aren't truly convincing. And I'd think that is what you want most.

People walking away are not convinced - don't fool yourself. And actual lying that all of us are convinced? It's even sadder if you think you HAVE convinced anyone. You ARE tenacious, but not in a good way and I do feel sorry for those you've convinced if their health will be hurt. People on here are not really as extreme as you represent them to be - you set up straw men to keep your argument going. It comes across as desperate but I don't know why.
The people who agree send private messages. I guess they don't want to be the target of your wrath, and the 2 other drug promoters.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 03:32 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 922,918 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Right back at ya

You just described your own posts exactly...

Your agenda is to work the word "statin" into every conversation whether warranted or not...

You continue to make the same false claims regarding the relative importance of infant mortality in determining life expectancy despite having been proven wrong over and over and over...

You don't understand the concept of metabolic syndrome but seem to think it explains ALL of life's ills...

You have this completely irrational belief that if people just KNEW better about how their lifestyle choices are affecting their health everyone would just put down the twinkies and cigarettes and start training for marathons.....news flash THEY DO KNOW BETTER.....THEY JUST DON'T CARE.....

There is never any "rational discourse" on any of these carbon copy threads you start every time one just like it gets shut down....because YOU are completely irrational....
You don't want people to see the truth, that the drugs are being overused thanks to drug industry propaganda and deceptive research.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,485 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
LONG BEFORE he ever got heart disease, his doctors should have been informing him that drugs do not cure diabetes 2. And they should have been informing him that it can be reversed or greatly improved by lifestyle changes.

No, I don't think my friend was lying to me about what his doctors told him.
I did not say he was lying. Doctors will tell you, if you ever bother discuss it with them, that what they say goes in one ear and out the other. Lifestyle changes are fundamental to the treatment of diabetes. He was told to make them and chose not to hear what was being said.

He was informed. Guaranteed.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,355 posts, read 7,121,412 times
Reputation: 31053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
LONG BEFORE he ever got heart disease, his doctors should have been informing him that drugs do not cure diabetes 2. And they should have been informing him that it can be reversed or greatly improved by lifestyle changes.

No, I don't think my friend was lying to me about what his doctors told him.
No...but I think you probably interpreted just the way you wanted...otherwise you would not pretend to know what every doctor says to their patients.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 04:42 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,194,565 times
Reputation: 6627
You have to understand that there are people who will follow doctors orders, no matter what. "They know more than me".

Ten years ago when I had that case of food poisoning and got ringing in my ears and double vision from Cipro, my husband screamed at me saying, "Doctor SAYS you must take ALL of these". No doctor, or YOU, can crawl inside my body to know how I am feeling. I do not need anyone's permission to stop taking a medication.

Couple of years ago my husband started feeling dizzy and falling down with a new Parkinson's medication. What is wrong with me? Duh? Maybe that NEW medication? Stop taking it and see how you feel. TRY stopping it. You are not going to DIE without it. You do not need doctor's permission to stop it. He felt much better, and admitted it was the new medication causing his symptoms. Doctor then told him to go back on his previous medication. Imagine THAT!

I just don't know why some people cannot think for themselves. Only Doctors can add 1 + 1 = 2? I am on your side, Good4Nothin, and older than you are.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 04:52 PM
 
3,330 posts, read 922,918 times
Reputation: 2570
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I did not say he was lying. Doctors will tell you, if you ever bother discuss it with them, that what they say goes in one ear and out the other. Lifestyle changes are fundamental to the treatment of diabetes. He was told to make them and chose not to hear what was being said.

He was informed. Guaranteed.
YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU WERE NOT THERE. You don't know him, or me, or his doctors.

Doctors STILL tell patients they only need 120 minutes of exercise per week. That is still the official recommendation. And they still don't recommend very low, or no, carbohydrates (temporarily) for patients trying to recover from metabolic syndrome or type 2 diabetes.
 
Old 08-04-2018, 05:59 PM
 
4,098 posts, read 1,715,405 times
Reputation: 11574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
The people who agree send private messages. I guess they don't want to be the target of your wrath, and the 2 other drug promoters.
Lol. And everyone here knows who those 3 people are...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top