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Old 08-08-2018, 04:44 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 958,796 times
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Oh yeah, and the typical statin promoter's refrain -- you will die if you stop taking your drugs every day. Even if you are taking it for primary prevention, and the research clearly shows there is no real benefit for that. Still, it's DANGEROUS to stop.

No, it's only dangerous for the drug companies because they lose a lot of money when people start catching on.

 
Old 08-08-2018, 04:55 PM
 
19,067 posts, read 6,273,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
BlueDevilz's main argument against me seems to be that I am not a medical professional. However, I have provided links to ,and quotes from, articles supporting everything I said.

I did not link articles from alternative or natural medicine sources. I only linked articles from mainstream sources.

BlueDevilz has ignored all my supporting evidence. All he does is repeat the mainstream views, as if they should never be doubted. Instead of rational arguments, he effectively says "This is how it is, because this is how it was, and we must not question the experts."

Statins are very controversial and I proved that with the sources I provided. Of course there are many more sources, but I did not show them because they are not medical experts. I have read many patient reports of terrible adverse effects, and I have read many non-mainstream sources. But I know you will only believe mainstream experts, so that's what I showed. And you ignored it all BlueDevilz.

It's called major "special vested interests" hence ignore all other information. So simple to see this, am I the only one who sees it all? ;
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:05 PM
 
Location: A place that's too cold
4,115 posts, read 4,076,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Kayanne....

Do continue to research and if you have concerns regarding your treatment definitely discuss with your physician

I would caution you against following any recommendations or reading too much into what Good4nothing writes...

She has an unreasonable axe to grind against statins and is clearly obsessed with a topic she really doesn't understand...

It would be dangerous to follow any advice she provides....
Just to clarify, I'm merely trying to learn more about why statins (moreso than other meds) have become so controversial. I don't have direct experience with clinical trials or development of pharmaceuticals, however, my career was in Clinical Laboratory Science, so I have above-average knowledge of healthcare and medical issues in general. Even with my medical science background, I find it difficult to wade through and make sense of the research, which is why I generally trust my medical providers for their understanding and recommendations.

I had been a non-participating reader in this thread until today, when I asked for an explanation of what I highlighted in purple and in orange in a previous post. (I even went back to the original JAMA article, but I am still confused.)
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
27,887 posts, read 17,794,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Oh yeah, and the typical statin promoter's refrain -- you will die if you stop taking your drugs every day.

Nobody says that.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:27 PM
 
19,067 posts, read 6,273,287 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Just to clarify, I'm merely trying to learn more about why statins (moreso than other meds) have become so controversial. I don't have direct experience with clinical trials or development of pharmaceuticals, however, my career was in Clinical Laboratory Science, so I have above-average knowledge of healthcare and medical issues in general. Even with my medical science background, I find it difficult to wade through and make sense of the research, which is why I generally trust my medical providers for their understanding and recommendations.

I had been a non-participating reader in this thread until today, when I asked for an explanation of what I highlighted in purple and in orange in a previous post. (I even went back to the original JAMA article, but I am still confused.)
I don't see much confusion on this issue. There are basically TWO mindsets, those who are very into pharma drugs and those who work hard to avoid them...I'm the latter. I've been on this earth for 80 yrs and have done both, swung both ways. Now for the last 20 yrs give or take, I see only integrative MD's and they firstly work with nutrition and supplements and IF needed will take their patients to a drug. They are medical doctors, but have gone extra miles to work with less toxic medicines. But these do "write" as I get thyroid and BP meds from my IM doctor.

So you just have to consider where you really are with your health and healing.



On a side note, and talking to a friend the other day. She has a friend, he is about my age, 80 or so. He was raised in a christian science home but says he doesn't practice the religion but he's NEVER had a lab done. Never. He does not go to doctors. He sees chiros, other body workers and others who do alternative work but no medical doctors. And he is fine with his health. He has no clue what his cholesterol is or other vitals. I'm sure his upbringing has stuck with him..he's rare. He declined Medicare ... I'm sure there are others like him. The minority in our country but they are there.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:27 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 958,796 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
Just to clarify, I'm merely trying to learn more about why statins (moreso than other meds) have become so controversial. I don't have direct experience with clinical trials or development of pharmaceuticals, however, my career was in Clinical Laboratory Science, so I have above-average knowledge of healthcare and medical issues in general. Even with my medical science background, I find it difficult to wade through and make sense of the research, which is why I generally trust my medical providers for their understanding and recommendations.

I had been a non-participating reader in this thread until today, when I asked for an explanation of what I highlighted in purple and in orange in a previous post. (I even went back to the original JAMA article, but I am still confused.)
The research is meant to be confusing, because they don't want you, or anyone, to understand.

For example, I have explained the problem with relative vs absolute risk reduction. The relative value could be 50%, for example, when the absolute value is only 1%. You will often see statin benefits expressed in relative terms, because it makes a tiny benefit look impressive.

If you look for the NNT, the number needed to treat, that is more informative. And I have explained that.

If you simply trust your medical providers, they might be just as confused as you are. They don't have time to inspect the research reports in detail.

That is why I read, and linked, articles explaining all this. There are people who are investigating the controversy. There is definitely more than one side.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:28 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 958,796 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Nobody says that.
Oh yeah they do.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:30 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 958,796 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I don't see much confusion on this issue. There are basically TWO mindsets, those who are very into pharma drugs and those who work hard to avoid them...I'm the latter. I've been on this earth for 80 yrs and have done both, swung both ways. Now for the last 20 yrs give or take, I see only integrative MD's and they firstly work with nutrition and supplements and IF needed will take their patients to a drug. They are medical doctors, but have gone extra miles to work with less toxic medicines. But these do "write" as I get thyroid and BP meds from my IM doctor.

So you just have to consider where you really are with your health and healing.
Sometimes some people need drugs. I am not against drugs. I am against the over-use and misuse of drugs. We are being fooled by the drug industry, and now the great majority of over age 40 Americans are taking drugs, whether needed or not, whether harmful or not.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 05:36 PM
 
19,067 posts, read 6,273,287 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Sometimes some people need drugs. I am not against drugs. I am against the over-use and misuse of drugs. We are being fooled by the drug industry, and now the great majority of over age 40 Americans are taking drugs, whether needed or not, whether harmful or not.
Of course, I take 3, 4 if we count ibuprofen.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 06:51 PM
 
4,637 posts, read 10,536,366 times
Reputation: 10353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Ok, I don't think you statin-lovers can argue with that. MOST people given statins are asymptomatic.
Often the first "symptom" of CAD is sudden cardiac death...

"Silent" heart attacks account for 45 percent of all attacks in the U.S., according to the study, published today (May 16) in the journal Circulation.
https://www.livescience.com/54760-ha...-symptoms.html

So yeah, lets wait until people are "symptomatic" before treating their CAD....it would certainly save health care dollars.....
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