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Old 08-08-2018, 07:01 PM
 
4,632 posts, read 10,526,073 times
Reputation: 10338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
The research is meant to be confusing, because they don't want you, or anyone, to understand.

For example, I have explained the problem with relative vs absolute risk reduction. The relative value could be 50%, for example, when the absolute value is only 1%. You will often see statin benefits expressed in relative terms, because it makes a tiny benefit look impressive.

If you look for the NNT, the number needed to treat, that is more informative. And I have explained that.

If you simply trust your medical providers, they might be just as confused as you are. They don't have time to inspect the research reports in detail.

That is why I read, and linked, articles explaining all this. There are people who are investigating the controversy. There is definitely more than one side.
Save the ridiculous conspiracy theories....just because you don't understand the research doesn't mean other people are unable to evaluate it.

Medical providers certainly aren't as confused as you seem to be...the average internist is MUCH more well versed than you regarding the treatment of cholesterol issues...

The hubris to believe because you have googled a few articles, mostly editorials by the way, you understand the issue better than an internal medicine physician or cardiologist????

You really believe that don't you???

How would you know there is more than one side to the issue you as well only present ONE side....

 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:07 PM
 
4,632 posts, read 10,526,073 times
Reputation: 10338
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
It's called major "special vested interests" hence ignore all other information. So simple to see this, am I the only one who sees it all? ;
Clearly you "see it all" because you are the only on this entire forum who routinely provides balanced, well thought out and appropriately researched data of only the highest caliber and repute...

No preconceived notions on what might work better for a certain problem whether it might be evidence based medicine, surgery or perhaps alternative treatment...fair and equal reporting of whatever the "right" treatment may be, let the chips fall where they may...

At least YOU aren't wedded to any "specific" treatment that might cure EVERYTHING under the sun such that you might ignore all evidence to the contrary...

Yep you nailed it

No "special interests" for you...

No "ignoring all other information" for you...
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:07 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 951,848 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Often the first "symptom" of CAD is sudden cardiac death...

"Silent" heart attacks account for 45 percent of all attacks in the U.S., according to the study, published today (May 16) in the journal Circulation.
https://www.livescience.com/54760-ha...-symptoms.html

So yeah, lets wait until people are "symptomatic" before treating their CAD....it would certainly save health care dollars.....
Statins for primary prevention do not save any lives. That is what the research says. You are trying to scare people into thinking they are more likely to die without the drugs, but you have no evidence.

For primary prevention, the NNT is about 250. And all-cause mortality is not affected.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:09 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 951,848 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Save the ridiculous conspiracy theories....just because you don't understand the research doesn't mean other people are unable to evaluate it.

Medical providers certainly aren't as confused as you seem to be...the average internist is MUCH more well versed than you regarding the treatment of cholesterol issues...

The hubris to believe because you have googled a few articles, mostly editorials by the way, you understand the issue better than an internal medicine physician or cardiologist????

You really believe that don't you???

How would you know there is more than one side to the issue you as well only present ONE side....
You argue by insulting. You never provide evidence or try to be rational.

You simply say that only medical professionals are allowed to think about this.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:10 PM
 
4,144 posts, read 1,743,409 times
Reputation: 11718
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Save the ridiculous conspiracy theories....just because you don't understand the research doesn't mean other people are unable to evaluate it.

Medical providers certainly aren't as confused as you seem to be...the average internist is MUCH more well versed than you regarding the treatment of cholesterol issues...

The hubris to believe because you have googled a few articles, mostly editorials by the way, you understand the issue better than an internal medicine physician or cardiologist????

You really believe that don't you???

How would you know there is more than one side to the issue you as well only present ONE side....
It one of the first things that the hard-core alt posters announce. "I am smarter than all of the population".

I don't understand it...if I want people to buy my POV, the last thing I would do is compare my knowledge to professionals yet it's a constant, never ending thing in every thread.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:18 PM
 
4,632 posts, read 10,526,073 times
Reputation: 10338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
You argue by insulting. You never provide evidence or try to be rational.

You simply say that only medical professionals are allowed to think about this.
I argue by insulting?

I never provide evidence or try to be rational?

Pot meet kettle....

You clearly stated above that YOU know more than the average physician about this topic because you have googled some articles for this thread...

Of course people can think and post about anything but to pass oneself of as an "expert" with no background to support this is irrational...
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:18 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 951,848 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
It one of the first things that the hard-core alt posters announce. "I am smarter than all of the population".

I don't understand it...if I want people to buy my POV, the last thing I would do is compare my knowledge to professionals yet it's a constant, never ending thing in every thread.

I never said the statin controversy was my own idea. I showed plenty of evidence and expert opinions, which you ignored. You want to mindlessly follow the pro-drug experts. By the way, they often have financial reasons for being pro-drug.

There are plenty of other experts who are not tied to the drug industry, and who disagree. It is a controversy. Being skeptical of statins is not a fringe position.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:34 PM
 
19,008 posts, read 6,233,192 times
Reputation: 12818
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
It one of the first things that the hard-core alt posters announce. "I am smarter than all of the population".

I don't understand it...if I want people to buy my POV, the last thing I would do is compare my knowledge to professionals yet it's a constant, never ending thing in every thread.
Please lead me to where the alt group says "I am smarter than all the population"...Have I been asleep at the wheel and missed this statement thru the 2 yrs on this group.

Speaking of hard core: There are such plenty of hard core pharma...at least I do admit that I take 4 meds and if needed I'd go there...not the hard core pharma group...they seem to fear Vit C. geeeezzzz
 
Old 08-08-2018, 07:49 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 951,848 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Please lead me to where the alt group says "I am smarter than all the population"...Have I been asleep at the wheel and missed this statement thru the 2 yrs on this group.

Speaking of hard core: There are such plenty of hard core pharma...at least I do admit that I take 4 meds and if needed I'd go there...not the hard core pharma group...they seem to fear Vit C. geeeezzzz
No one who criticizes statins here has claimed to be smarter.

But certain posters here don't like the fact that we dare to think about health, rather than mindlessly following the advice of medical doctors. They think that means we somehow feel superior. No, that is not what it means.

Some people like to think and to question common assumptions. We can think and question without feeling superior. Thinking and questioning is good, in my opinion, and people might benefit if they did more of it.

We have terrible health problems in this country, and if people were more knowledgeable and less trusting of MDs, things might improve. They might have less faith in drugs, and have more interest in natural methods of preventing disease.
 
Old 08-08-2018, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Wine Country
4,862 posts, read 5,931,100 times
Reputation: 8526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
No one who criticizes statins here has claimed to be smarter.

But certain posters here don't like the fact that we dare to think about health, rather than mindlessly following the advice of medical doctors. They think that means we somehow feel superior. No, that is not what it means.

Some people like to think and to question common assumptions. We can think and question without feeling superior. Thinking and questioning is good, in my opinion, and people might benefit if they did more of it.

We have terrible health problems in this country, and if people were more knowledgeable and less trusting of MDs, things might improve. They might have less faith in drugs, and have more interest in natural methods of preventing disease.
You seem to have an all or nothing view of how people view medical care. Plenty of people question their doctors, the drugs they are prescribed, and alternatives. If someone is taking statins, like my husband, it doesn't mean he will just take any old thing a doctor prescribes.
You seem to have this view that no one is discussing our health and just blindly do what doctors say to do. Its a rather black and white view.

I am not sure what your trying to achieve other than muddying the water with every single post.

Modern medicine is an amazing thing. There are new drugs, new therapies, and new studies done all the time to help people live longer and better lives. But there is also a lot of crap pills out there and big Pharma would like you to take them. And there are a lot of doctors that will perhaps not talk about other options. I personally have never encountered that. All of my doctors have always stressed eating healthy and exercising, even going as far as suggesting acupuncture and yoga . But I live in an area of the country that has an overall healthy attitude.

You have written a lot of posts and yet I think a lot of us are still trying to understand what it is you are trying to tell us. Your agenda is convoluted at best, misinformed at worse. And who is it exactly that is feeling superior?
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