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Old 08-14-2018, 11:53 AM
 
602 posts, read 149,757 times
Reputation: 1088

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
They do.



Good4Nothin, please answer this question, because these are the patients who are being placed on statins, because there is evidence that they do reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease (just not as much as you think they should).



You do not get away with refusing to answer that question, because it reflects real life, not the Nirvana that you live in.

What do you tell the person who does not want to cut back on red meat? How about the guy who continues to consume more beer than he should? The couch potato who refuses to exercise?

"Bad lifestyle" is not a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. The effects of it are: hypertension and diabetes, for example. The NNT to benefit people at risk because of hypertension and diabetes is way less than 250 (and I have not forgotten that you have yet to tell us where you got that number).

Death, as I have mentioned before, is the wrong metric. You seem to think non-fatal heart attacks and strokes are totally irrelevant. They are not.
But its not your business if someone does not want to change their lifestyle or their diet. Its not up to you to tell someone only you/medical profession knows whats best. Not your business.

 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,622 posts, read 26,329,633 times
Reputation: 26740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Williepaws View Post
But its not your business if someone does not want to change their lifestyle or their diet. Its not up to you to tell someone only you/medical profession knows whats best. Not your business.
It's not my business but it is OK for the original poster to do exactly that?

The question is what a doctor should do for a patient at risk for heart disease who cannot or does not want to change his diet and exercise.
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Southern California
19,163 posts, read 6,339,520 times
Reputation: 12920
On this longevity issue, go into Caregivers and read some of the horrible stories of many in rehabs and IF only they had taken more care of themselves all their lives and yes, taken supplements like Antioxidants, good chance they would NOT be in some of the conditions they are in. Every time I read a new story, I thank my lucky stars/mind for all the supplements I've been working with and here I am 80...how long I'll make it to, who knows, but pretty healthy so far.

The body gets old and foods can just do so much. We need them and thank goodness I do have a good appetite.

Last edited by jaminhealth; 08-14-2018 at 12:29 PM..
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:15 PM
 
5,613 posts, read 4,195,508 times
Reputation: 12374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Well my hypothesis here has been that they have too much faith in modern medicine to protect them from disease.

I don't think it's simple laziness. Americans are not generally lazy, just the opposite.

I think it's the drug ads on TV, and the MDs who promote drugs. No one here has ever known an MD to promote drugs, but I suspect there are lots of them.
It is simple laziness. Watch the news, read a magazine or surf online for an hour and in addition to a couple drug commercials, you’ll also see information on diet, exercise and health. Obesity rates and the health effects feature prominently. It’s impossible to ignore and there’s not a fat person alive who is unaware of their fatness. They just don’t care enough to get off the couch.

Some people are reliant on drugs to manage conditions that would disappear with diet, exercise and weight loss. Maybe some of the obese folks I see in my doctor’s waiting room fall into that category, but what is the doctor supposed to do when they ignore his advice? Withhold possibly life saving meds? Follow them home and smack the Twinkies out of their hands? Neither of those is reasonable or possible.

Many companies now offer financial incentives for healthier living. Guess how well they work?They’re plagued by poor enrollment despite paying people to do so. And those with the highest healthcare costs were the least likely to enroll. So not only does better health not entice people to diet and exercise, but neither does more money.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latim...outputType=amp

Last edited by UNC4Me; 08-14-2018 at 12:32 PM..
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
8,850 posts, read 14,300,935 times
Reputation: 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Are there many people who live into their 90's without medical intervention? Sure.
Are there many people who would be dead without medical intervention? Sure?
Are there people who eat junk food, drink, never exercise and live into their 90's? Sure.
Are there people who eat healthy, exercise, and die in their 40's and 50's? Sure.
Does medical science or holistic science explain any of it? Nope.

I think there always were people who lived to 90 or 100, just far less of them (percentage as well as numbers) as today.
 
Old 08-14-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,575 posts, read 7,268,483 times
Reputation: 31458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Maybe I should get a treadmill for the awful weather. I go out if it's zero degrees or a hundred degrees, and sometimes that is not fun. The worst weather for walking or biking is cold, rainy, and windy.
Good for you! And you know there are few with your motivation! So what do they get if they fail in their xx minutes of exercise a day? Do they get any medication?
 
Old 08-14-2018, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Southern California
19,163 posts, read 6,339,520 times
Reputation: 12920
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
I think there always were people who lived to 90 or 100, just far less of them (percentage as well as numbers) as today.
Well, yes our population has GROWN.
 
Old 08-14-2018, 01:50 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,198 posts, read 6,403,077 times
Reputation: 12833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Slogging on the treadmill won't prevent us getting old and dying. But it will make the process a whole lot easier and better, in most cases.

By the way, walking outdoors might be more pleasant and you wouldn't feel like you were slogging. Get a dog and then you have to go out and walk.
I was being purely facetious in this comment, which was a response to LLCNYC's post.

And BTW, you're preaching to the choir here. I have exercised regularly for years (and that'd be in excess of 150 minutes/week), including, but not limited to walking, and I know well, having experienced these myself, the physical, mental, and psychological benefits of regular exercise. These benefits provide the ongoing incentives for me to keep exercising, even when I don't feel like it. So your patronizing delivery of this information, born of your assumption that everyone else must be a member of the ignorant masses who'd rather sit, watch TV, eat bonbons and take prescription meds to save ourselves a premature visit from the Grim Reaper aren't especially needed or appreciated here.

As if one's reason for getting a dog is only to ensure that one takes walks, that's a pretty lame reason to bring an animal into one's life, IMO. I won't get into the committment needed to have an animal sharing one's life here, but if it's only to make sure one takes daily walks, get a treadmill.
 
Old 08-14-2018, 02:04 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 966,686 times
Reputation: 2628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
I was being purely facetious in this comment, which was a response to LLCNYC's post.

And BTW, you're preaching to the choir here. I have exercised regularly for years (and that'd be in excess of 150 minutes/week), including, but not limited to walking, and I know well, having experienced these myself, the physical, mental, and psychological benefits of regular exercise. These benefits provide the ongoing incentives for me to keep exercising, even when I don't feel like it. So your patronizing delivery of this information, born of your assumption that everyone else must be a member of the ignorant masses who'd rather sit, watch TV, eat bonbons and take prescription meds to save ourselves a premature visit from the Grim Reaper aren't especially needed or appreciated here.

As if one's reason for getting a dog is only to ensure that one takes walks, that's a pretty lame reason to bring an animal into one's life, IMO. I won't get into the committment needed to have an animal sharing one's life here, but if it's only to make sure one takes daily walks, get a treadmill.
A dog is a commitment, almost as much as having a baby, imo, so I was not being serious about that.

And my post wasn't patronizing in my opinion, at all. This has been a response to others at this forum who had nothing but praise for statin drugs. It took pages and pages to get across the point that the only healthy way to prevent or treat heart disease, stroke, etc., is by improving lifestyle.

Some got angry, some kept insisting and insisting everything I say is wrong. Statin drugs are good, they save lives, heart disease is mostly genetic. This is very widely believed. Probably most of the people I know around my age think this way.

I'm glad you appreciate exercise, because it is the best medicine. Without it, the muscles get weak and stiff, and everything starts to go wrong. The metabolism doesn't work right, nothing works right. So much of the supposedly inevitable decline of old age is really lack of exercise.
 
Old 08-14-2018, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Wine Country
4,873 posts, read 5,954,283 times
Reputation: 8565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
A dog is a commitment, almost as much as having a baby, imo, so I was not being serious about that.

And my post wasn't patronizing in my opinion, at all. This has been a response to others at this forum who had nothing but praise for statin drugs. It took pages and pages to get across the point that the only healthy way to prevent or treat heart disease, stroke, etc., is by improving lifestyle.

Some got angry, some kept insisting and insisting everything I say is wrong. Statin drugs are good, they save lives, heart disease is mostly genetic. This is very widely believed. Probably most of the people I know around my age think this way.

I'm glad you appreciate exercise, because it is the best medicine. Without it, the muscles get weak and stiff, and everything starts to go wrong. The metabolism doesn't work right, nothing works right. So much of the supposedly inevitable decline of old age is really lack of exercise.
That is false.
No one is angry either.
You have presented your argument ad nauseam. That argument is that if people knew they could exercise and eat right they would live longer and not have to rely on doctor prescribed medications.
The population as a whole realizes this but a lot will simply carry on with their bad habits. That is human nature.
You are acting as if knowing this you hold the key to a long and healthy life. You are presumptuous, condescending, and a lot of the time wrong. I think its time you moved on, don't you?
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