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Old 08-06-2018, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,211 posts, read 10,613,277 times
Reputation: 9385

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post


"In 2013, Emily Stillman, then a 19-year-old student at Kalamazoo College in Michigan, called home complaining about a headache. By the next day, she was dead."

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/coll...accine-n793431

Suzy,

I respect your medical knowledge. How do you feel about all the advertisements on TV for drugs in general? I know there are important drugs, like this one for Meningitis B; but how should the average layman distinguish between what is necessary to save life and the companies that only want to sell more drugs?

I understand the expense involved in manufacturing new medications. I just do not like the concept that we tell our doctors what medication they should prescribe and they listen. Of course, with your example of the Meningitis B vaccine; that could save lives. However; that recommendation to take the vaccine should have come from the family physician. Of course I guess that many do not have a family physician and use emergency care facilities (which would not have access to their immunization history).
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:40 AM
 
Location: north narrowlina
762 posts, read 226,694 times
Reputation: 3086
i took hydroxypamoate (i forget the name brand correlation) for almost 4 years, as i still struggle with PTSD/anxiety out in public. i still can't go to a shopping mall, nor enter the city where i was beaten, robbed, my car stolen by a gang of girls while a crowd of some 50 or so people stood watched and cheered. it so stunned me, i had plenty of abuse all during my life, but to lie helpless on the ground while people took utter delight torturing me was something i doubt i will ever get over. i still prefer to do my grocery shopping at 4 a.m. i trust no one. inhumanity leaves deep wounds. i recently stopped taking the hydroxypamoate, only because there was a study they publicized on the nightly news just 3 or 4 weeks ago that if you take an anti-anxiety drug plus a beta blocker for high blood pressure PLUS your depression medication, it most definitely exacerbates the depression.

i'm not who i used to be. being elderly now, i feel like i live in an alien body, i'm not as strong, fearless, self sufficient..... i feel at the mercy of fate and can be knocked over by a feather of any small thing......but at least i still have some courage to wage my daily battles and i do not want to be at the mercy of drugs which are ALWAYS the first thing a doctor throws at you. so i stopped taking the hydroxypamoate.

i think living the way we do now, with no extended family around, often behind gated communities, or driving right into our garage while the opener closes the door before we even shut the car off, we seem to live on our little islands, perhaps too self absorbed.
Even tho i only had that 1 day of terror, i know how debilitating trauma can be, so after watching 60 Minutes & the awful suffering of Syrian people who can't even find safety/healing in the few remaining hospitals i signed up to give monthly donations to the Syrian/American Society to help fund medical help in the middle east. already it feels like a huge weight has fallen. that by helping others who are caught in circumstances not of their making, i feel more strength and connection to a great world out there. my own little troubles truly seem more manageable!
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:41 AM
 
3,055 posts, read 1,221,799 times
Reputation: 6088
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Suzy,

I respect your medical knowledge. How do you feel about all the advertisements on TV for drugs in general? I know there are important drugs, like this one for Meningitis B; but how should the average layman distinguish between what is necessary to save life and the companies that only want to sell more drugs?

I understand the expense involved in manufacturing new medications. I just do not like the concept that we tell our doctors what medication they should prescribe and they listen. Of course, with your example of the Meningitis B vaccine; that could save lives. However; that recommendation to take the vaccine should have come from the family physician. Of course I guess that many do not have a family physician and use emergency care facilities (which would not have access to their immunization history).
Many people go to county health departments to get vaccinations. I have gone to a CHD to get vaccinated as an adult prior to travel because my PCP didnít have all the vaccinations I needed in stock and it was prior to the start of the school year and the place was PACKED. You go to a good CHD and the staff there should recommend the appropriate vaccines (they had my history the second time and told me to get a booster), but I think it is important to advertise for newer vaccines to get the word out. Keep in mind also that many of the people who would be affected with meningitis are college age or maybe even above college age and in grad school and donít have a pediatrician. I had I classmate in grad school who got meningitis when we were in a study abroad program, but since many of us were already in our late 20s and early 30s, it wouldnít even cross our minds to think about the meningitis symptoms.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,211 posts, read 10,613,277 times
Reputation: 9385
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Many people go to county health departments to get vaccinations. I have gone to a CHD to get vaccinated as an adult prior to travel because my PCP didnít have all the vaccinations I needed in stock and it was prior to the start of the school year and the place was PACKED. You go to a good CHD and the staff there should recommend the appropriate vaccines (they had my history the second time and told me to get a booster), but I think it is important to advertise for newer vaccines to get the word out. Keep in mind also that many of the people who would be affected with meningitis are college age or maybe even above college age and in grad school and donít have a pediatrician. I had I classmate in grad school who got meningitis when we were in a study abroad program, but since many of us were already in our late 20s and early 30s, it wouldnít even cross our minds to think about the meningitis symptoms.

The vaccination advertisements do not bother me; although I wish there was a better way. When you get into the mood/anxiety/depression/pain drugs I worry. For the last poster they worked. But, as humans, all of us have up and down days. The idea that we see something and run to our doctors and they prescribe that particular medication bothers me. We have then crossed the line from patient to doctor. You could be having a really bad day and you run to your doctor and they give you the month's worth of pills for your problem - but you mood could change tomorrow. You might have started the use of a pill that you really did not need and does have side effects.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,108 posts, read 32,791,964 times
Reputation: 57252
Haven't read the whole thread but I'll chime in with my opinion (as usual - LOL):

All three "components" share some responsibility - "Big Pharma," doctors, and patients.

Big Pharma is in it for the money. Period. So their marketing shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Everyone is targeted - from doctors to patients alike.

Doctors (and patients - or potential patients) are being targeted by sophisticated marketing techniques. Doctors are also usually overbooked, for various reasons, including both money, and patient demand. In a perfect world, doctors would have more time to spend with each patient, and more time to explain things, talk about lifestyle changes, etc. I don't buy that all doctors can't cut back some on their patient load - for many, it is a choice (resulting in higher pay for them) but I also know that some doctors are part of hospital systems which pretty much demand that they see X number of patients per day. But for whatever reasons, many doctors simply throw a new pill at a patient rather than getting to know their patients and their lifestyle choices and addressing the root causes of many issues.

Patients are often too complacent about their own health care. We only have ONE BODY - one. It needs to last us, so like a vehicle or a home or any other long term investment, it needs care and maintenance. Many people make a lifetime of lifestyle choices that, I'm sorry but they have to know that they are unhealthy choices. THEY DO KNOW. But they expect to go to a doctor and get a pill for a quick fix.

Lifestyle changes are not easy to make but they are definitely do-able.

I thank God for the doctor I went to see after I got divorced. I was depressed. I was stressed out. I went in for a physical, and mentioned how stressed out and sad and depressed I was. I am not a pill taker in general, but I was so miserable at that point in my life that I probably would have taken something prescribed to me if it would make me feel better, and I'd actually had a couple of friends encourage me to get on some happy pills or whatever. Anyway, my doctor looked long and hard at me and then he said, "Of course you're depressed and stressed out. Those are normal responses to your situation. There'd be something wrong with you if you WEREN'T sad and stressed out. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to eat better. Get out and get some exercise. Stop drinking three glasses of wine every night and eat a nutritious meal instead. Get up an hour earlier if you have to (and go to bed an hour earlier) and spend some quiet time alone - read, pray, meditate, watch birds, whatever. Spend some quality time on rejuvenating yourself and replenishing your energy levels. Eat more vegetables and less fast food. Drink more water. Sleep in on Saturdays. Treat your body better."

Simple advice - but I was so glad that he refused to give me a pill for something that I could address myself in more healthy ways. And I did so - and I became less stressed and got over my depression and my life settled back down and one day I realized that I was happy again!

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 08-06-2018 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:15 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,169 posts, read 6,355,928 times
Reputation: 12761
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatblueheron View Post
LOL...

...drug companies, I believe, are required to list every symptom that came up during trials. That means if three people out of hundreds developed muscle pain while taking the med, it will be on the list of side effects.
Yup, they list the incidence of each reported side effect of the drug compared with the placebo ( that information is found in the package insert).

Not infrequently the incident of a given side effect is the same for both the drug and the placebo. But there it will be listed on the side effects for the drug.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,559 posts, read 26,178,293 times
Reputation: 26607
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Suzy,

I respect your medical knowledge. How do you feel about all the advertisements on TV for drugs in general? I know there are important drugs, like this one for Meningitis B; but how should the average layman distinguish between what is necessary to save life and the companies that only want to sell more drugs?

I understand the expense involved in manufacturing new medications. I just do not like the concept that we tell our doctors what medication they should prescribe and they listen. Of course, with your example of the Meningitis B vaccine; that could save lives. However; that recommendation to take the vaccine should have come from the family physician. Of course I guess that many do not have a family physician and use emergency care facilities (which would not have access to their immunization history).
In general I do not like direct to consumer advertising either.

I do not watch much TV, so I have not seen the men B ad. It does not bother me, though, since the target demographic might not be seeing a doctor regularly. That vaccine is not on the list recommended for everyone, either.

The states have vaccine registries, which make it easy for a provider to check your status if the site is updated each time you get a vaccine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Yup, they list the incidence of each reported side effect of the drug compared with the placebo ( that information is found in the package insert).

Not infrequently the incident of a given side effect is the same for both the drug and the placebo. But there it will be listed on the side effects for the drug.
They also list events which have been reported for which they do not know the exact frequency or whether the drug has anything to do with them at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Simple advice - but I was so glad that he refused to give me a pill for something that I could address myself in more healthy ways. And I did so - and I became less stressed and got over my depression and my life settled back down and one day I realized that I was happy again!
That is called psychotherapy, and many physicians do it.
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,108 posts, read 32,791,964 times
Reputation: 57252
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post


That is called psychotherapy, and many physicians do it.
Clearly, more physicians should do it rather than throwing Big Pharma at people because it's an "easy fix." "Easy" for a bit but the trade off can be horrible in the long run. Next thing you know, you're taking another medication for a side effect from one medication. At one point, my MIL was on 13 different medications and had to literally go through detox and regroup (they got her down to 3). In fact, I've known several people who ended up in that grind, who had to check into behavioral health clinics simply to get off a smorgasbord of drugs, regroup, and invariably they came out with a drastic reduction in prescription meds.

There's a balance that has to be found between the miracles of modern medicine and personal responsibility. Also, simply put, not everyone is going to be geared together to feel the same way about life's challenges. And that's OK too. Sometimes it's OK to feel depressed or anxious, and sometimes we need to focus on changing ELEMENTS OF OUR LIVES rather than just reaching for a pill.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that medications have their place but I also believe that they are over prescribed a lot.

I have a brother who is bipolar and schizophrenic. He was prescribed all sorts of meds - and wow, well, he was controllable but he was also just as jacked up as ever, if not moreso. He switched doctors and now he's on two medications - one for daytime and one he takes at night. Even so, even with his history of substance abuse, mental health issues, etc. his doctors ask him EVERY TIME HE GOES if he wants them to refill his hydrocodone prescription, or if he "would like to have his meds increased." What? What he's on is WORKING. Why would he want to increase the dosage, or add another drug to the regimen, and why should he take hydrocodone if meloxicam is just as effective and NOT A NARCOTIC? Honestly, I don't understand why so many doctors are so pill happy.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,211 posts, read 10,613,277 times
Reputation: 9385
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Clearly, more physicians should do it rather than throwing Big Pharma at people because it's an "easy fix." "Easy" for a bit but the trade off can be horrible in the long run. Next thing you know, you're taking another medication for a side effect from one medication. At one point, my MIL was on 13 different medications and had to literally go through detox and regroup (they got her down to 3). In fact, I've known several people who ended up in that grind, who had to check into behavioral health clinics simply to get off a smorgasbord of drugs, regroup, and invariably they came out with a drastic reduction in prescription meds.

There's a balance that has to be found between the miracles of modern medicine and personal responsibility. Also, simply put, not everyone is going to be geared together to feel the same way about life's challenges. And that's OK too. Sometimes it's OK to feel depressed or anxious, and sometimes we need to focus on changing ELEMENTS OF OUR LIVES rather than just reaching for a pill.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that medications have their place but I also believe that they are over prescribed a lot.

I have a brother who is bipolar and schizophrenic. He was prescribed all sorts of meds - and wow, well, he was controllable but he was also just as jacked up as ever, if not moreso. He switched doctors and now he's on two medications - one for daytime and one he takes at night. Even so, even with his history of substance abuse, mental health issues, etc. his doctors ask him EVERY TIME HE GOES if he wants them to refill his hydrocodone prescription, or if he "would like to have his meds increased." What? What he's on is WORKING. Why would he want to increase the dosage, or add another drug to the regimen, and why should he take hydrocodone if meloxicam is just as effective and NOT A NARCOTIC? Honestly, I don't understand why so many doctors are so pill happy.

My wife has stage 4 cancer and she is on the fentanyl patch and oxycodone (which the dosage was just increased today to 20mg every four hours from 10mg ever four to six hours). But she has cancer in her bones and it is very painful. Without the pain meds she does not want to live. So it is a balance with, maybe, a chance to survive.

Before Xmas of last year and before we knew she had cancer; we took her to a pain specialist for pain in her knee. He gave her a prescription and two months worth of samples for Lyrica. Lyrica is very expensive and the two months worth of samples was worth (I think) over $500. They were the 50mg pills which she was to take three times a day. Lyrica is also addictive in that you are not supposed to just go off cold turkey. She is still on Lyrica even today; although we have her on 100mg instead of the 150mg/day. My problem is that I do not think she really gets any pain relief from the Lyrica. But she is in so much pain that I would not want to deprive her of anything that might help. My feeling is that is the problem with many of our meds, we do not really know if they do any good; but we are afraid to stop.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:29 PM
 
8,874 posts, read 7,363,847 times
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Like all things medical, there is no one size fits all answer. I sought counseling for depression and PTSD and in the course found out I also have Aspergers. Great combination <sarcasm>. Was given low dose medication ALONG WITH counseling and meditation exercises. Wife and coworkers all noticed a big difference. I still have horrible bouts of depression and anxiety but they come much less frequently and donít last as long as before. Donít know if itís the medication or time but the nightmares from my military experience hardly ever happen anymore
And when they do theyíre not causing me to jump up ready to run. Just left feeling weak, tired, and drained physically and emotionally.
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