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Old 08-25-2018, 08:02 PM
 
110 posts, read 27,187 times
Reputation: 403

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceiligrrl View Post
we can say a lot of derogatory things about America.... or Americans....but chances are you weren't there the days after those towers fell, as was I, as were my friends, all my neighbors, sure, as a native New Yorker, and a daughter of a Port Authority police officer, who died immediately after that horrific day, I most likely am very biased. VERY.....but do not dare say to me that Americans are wimps, do not tell me that Americans do not possess a courage, a strength, a deserved pride. Shame on you.

I don't mean any disrespect, CG, and while I empathize with your loss (I had former colleagues who died as a direct result of the events of September 11, 2001.), what does your reply to the O.P have to do with Health and Wellness let alone his or her example of colonoscopies sans sedation? If the O.P. had written that, let's say, a burn victim of 9/11 was a wimp for requesting pain relief during debridement of his or her wounds, you'd have more of a case here. However, that was not the case. Continuing onward....

When it comes to various medical and dental procedures, people have varying tolerances of pain and/or discomfort. That being said, for general, limited pain such as that experienced with a routine wisdom tooth extraction, the meds generally prescribed for pain relief are usually a bit excessive compared to what was routinely given when my classmates and I had ours removed in the early nineties. (Prescription Strength Tylenol as opposed to Percoset, for example). I wouldn't say that we were made of tougher stuff per se, rather that prescribing norms changed drastically once pain management became an additional "vital sign."

Some Americans might possess courage, strength and deserved pride, but more than a few look for the fastest, easiest fix possible--damn any potential negative consequences as a result of their choices (or the prescribing decisions of medical professionals who are trusted by their patients).
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: North Las Vegas
230 posts, read 148,745 times
Reputation: 502
Shiddddd I'd get put under if they allowed me to just to give blood,straight punk here.
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:26 PM
 
Location: God's Country
4,654 posts, read 3,021,438 times
Reputation: 7551
In Europe, socialized medicine doesn't cover the cost of even the mild sedative that GI MDs use in the US to lessen the risk of a patient "flinching" and causing serious damage to the intestinal mucosa.


Response above assumes of course that the original OP ain't a lonely troll seeking attention.
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:42 PM
 
Location: State of Denial
1,665 posts, read 771,338 times
Reputation: 8531
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsychic View Post
So should I be nude for my next root canal???
Well, hell, I have a tooth cleaning appointment coming up. I'd better at least get some new underwear....
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:46 PM
 
Location: AZ
593 posts, read 305,018 times
Reputation: 2416
OP gone? Trolling? Hmmmmm...

Love my anesthesia.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:20 PM
 
2,215 posts, read 755,118 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceiligrrl View Post
we can say a lot of derogatory things about America.... or Americans....but chances are you weren't there the days after those towers fell, as was I, as were my friends, all my neighbors, sure, as a native New Yorker, and a daughter of a Port Authority police officer, who died immediately after that horrific day, I most likely am very biased. VERY.....but do not dare say to me that Americans are wimps, do not tell me that Americans do not possess a courage, a strength, a deserved pride. Shame on you.
I can't rep you again yet, but this is a powerful post. Thank you, and I agree. And although I don't live in that area I am grateful to your family member for bravely serving the community.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:38 PM
 
2,215 posts, read 755,118 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly Known As Twenty View Post
I don't mean any disrespect, CG, and while I empathize with your loss (I had former colleagues who died as a direct result of the events of September 11, 2001.), what does your reply to the O.P have to do with Health and Wellness let alone his or her example of colonoscopies sans sedation? If the O.P. had written that, let's say, a burn victim of 9/11 was a wimp for requesting pain relief during debridement of his or her wounds, you'd have more of a case here. However, that was not the case. Continuing onward....
CG's post had everything to do with the OP calling Americans wimps. And that coming from a non American.
We are most definitely not wimps! Expect to get some blowback from a statement like that. I stand with all our tremendously brave military, law enforcement, firefighters, and any others who serve, saving lives. CG was right on.
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:50 PM
 
93 posts, read 26,844 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
I stand with all our tremendously brave military, law enforcement, firefighters, and any others who serve, saving lives. CG was right on.
So, basically if I get this right, ONLY American [military, law enforcement, firefighters, and any others who serve] are brave and all other nations (such personnel) aren't.
OK


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
CG's post had everything to do with the OP calling Americans wimps. And that coming from a non American.
We are most definitely not wimps!
But you can't have the same perspective if you were born in U.S., because all those things that the original poster mentioned (and especially those that weren't mentioned), you obviously take for granted, because that's the environment you grew up with - hence that's what constitutes "normal" for you, so it doesn't stand out in any way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
Expect to get some blowback from a statement like that.
Well, the original post is, like, two sentences, and written in a very confrontational tone - basically trolling.
Having lived for 30 years in Europe and last 10 in U.S., I simply have to agree with the fact that I witnessed many such "wimps" in hospitals in U.S. myself.


But, that's a byproduct of BigPharma and legal lawsuits, so it's much cheaper to just knock everyone out for simple, primitive procedures, than risk paying huge settlements. And no, I don't consider colonoscopy a procedure that should be done without it. That's just stupid.


There's no doubt in my mind that it's not about U.S. being "more humane", but about being "more cheaper". And that's fine, it's a business.






Now, what the original poster "forgot" to mention, is that certain dental procedures in Europe are simply inhumane. Let me give you one example that I experienced myself (I have more like that, especially root canals without any anesthesia), not so long ago (~decade ago or so):


Dental Emergency:
- The tooth is getting worse and it's at the point you can't eat on that side last few weeks, and can't even touch it with tootbrush, it's that sensitive. You haven't slept properly last 3 nights.
- Nearest available appointment is in 4 weeks (I'm lucky, I know the dentist personally, otherwise it'd be 3-4 months, and that's no exaggeration).
- Thus, you go to the dental emergency room


- you wait your turn, usually just 4-6 hours (yes), but sometimes 8+ (8 hrs raises your risk that their shift is done, and you must leave and come back for next shift, restarting the waiting process from start)
- Dentist takes a veeery quick look and says: "This is going to be extraction. That qualifies you for a numbing injection, but since there's 30 more patients out there, we're not going to wait 5 minutes till it kicks in, so we just take it out"


- She grabs the tooth, which sends electroshocks to my brain (remember, I couldn't touch it with a toothbrush), starts wiggling it, and after about 30 seconds, it's out. I'm literally half passed out, can barely hear her what she's talking about, my head is spinning, visuals are fuzzy and blurry
- She is saying something, but I don't understand. I can see she's getting impatient


- She raises her voice: "The tooth is out, you can get out!"


- I get up from the chair, everything is still spinning&blurry, I am having troubles grabbing the door handle (it's spinning too and moving), but I manage to catch it after few attempts and get out


- It took less than 5 minutes.




It's funny, but every second of those 5 minutes are, like, burnt into my retina, I see them so clearly, the smell of the room, even though I don't recall anything else around that timeframe.


Out of curiosity, if anyone knows, why was I experiencing those blurry/fuzzy/spinning symptoms ? What actually happened ?
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:47 AM
 
2,215 posts, read 755,118 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenderFrost View Post
So, basically if I get this right, ONLY American [military, law enforcement, firefighters, and any others who serve] are brave and all other nations (such personnel) aren't.
OK
Because that was the direction the conversation was flowing in for the moment, about Americans not being wimps. If someone says that we are wimps, then someone else is allowed to say that we are not. It's called having a discussion. Moving right along.....
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:26 AM
 
93 posts, read 26,844 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
Because that was the direction the conversation was flowing in for the moment, about Americans not being wimps. If someone says that we are wimps, then someone else is allowed to say that we are not. It's called having a discussion. Moving right along.....
The only problem I find with this logic is:
You are trying to hold a conversation with a person (I presume OP) who:
a) Is clearly a troll
b) If not, and this is much worse, who just generalized across ~300 MILLION PEOPLE


The Europe is so fragmented, that even the Europe means nothing specific. If you made a circle with a radius of 100 miles in my home town, you'd cross 4-5 countries, with vastly different cultures, languages, economic status, social system, and most importantly for this topic - healthcare.


I'm not saying I experienced whole Europe, but I stayed some prolonged time in at least 8-10 different countries of it and nothing was remotely similar from one to another.



Kinda exactly like in U.S.: Montana is nothing like New Jersey or Illinois. Completely different culture, values, and life.


At least you all guys speak English here Didn't have that luxury in Europe. While I speak 5 languages fluently, I always learnt few other languages a bit (say, 300-500 words) when visiting other countries.


Thank god I don't have to do that here.
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