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Old 08-29-2018, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Central IL
13,422 posts, read 7,159,129 times
Reputation: 31176

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar 77 View Post
This is me as well. Dr. did confirm what I knew from my husband being in the drug biz......that generics are NOT exactly like the name brands, no matter what "they" say. Synthroid did work for me, although to get me into normal range I take 2 different strengths, alternating every day. I have gone from labs every 3 months to every 6 months.

I was not aware of the other meds mentioned above. I will have to look into those and discuss w/my doctor, who is on top of things, I really am pleased with him.
The active drug must be the same in generics, but the fillers can be different. And obviously the manufacturing details may differ. That has been the main problems with generics because with thyroid hormone tiny differences can have huge effects - if the range of active drug that you happen to get varies from month to month then you'll feel it and your bloodwork will also vary. To be more consistent, the name brand has better quality control.

And some people are sensitive to the kind of fillers used so it can help to try several different ones.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:07 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 1,859,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
If the level of thyroxine in the blood is high then the pituitary gland releases less TSH. Therefore, a low level of TSH means that your thyroid gland is overactive and is making too much thyroxine. Thyroxine (T4). A high level of T4 confirms hyperthyroidism.Mar 15, 2018

Overactive Thyroid Gland (Hyperthyroidism) | Symptoms and Causes ...
https://patient.info/health/overacti...yperthyroidism
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrexy View Post
Great that you found a perfect balance with your labs, symptoms, and your dosage. However, you seem to be completely missing the point. If a TSH level is low, you don't increase the dose of thyroid medicine. If your TSH level went lower, they would not increase your dose!
NDT is a pituitary TSH suppressant. It's in the informational packet that comes with the drug even. So people on NDT will have a very suppressed TSH and it's not even worth testing. Instead they will go by symptoms, temps and FT3 RT3 etc. If the patient isn't having any hyper symptoms, there is no reason to think they are hyper or worry about the suppressed TSH as the drug is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

Here is the sheet for NP Thyroid https://npthyroid.com/wp-content/upl...roid_WebPI.pdf

To the OP - I started on Levo, would feel great for about 2 weeks then crash and feel worse again. I forget how high a dose I got up to, but after a year I found a doctor that would let me try NDT and that worked much better. I've tried synthetics twice and they didn't work out well. Now I have hormones messing things up so I'm trying to balance all that again.

But - there are many people who do well on synthetics!

If it were me, I'd look at the fillers. I'd also look at my diet - when I started to clean up my diet I discovered I would get itchy skin with things like bread and then I developed allergies to an ingredient in sunblock, and now am even allergic to one of 4 ingredients in natural bug spray and I haven't had the time to isolate them to figure out which it is.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Surfside Beach, SC
1,800 posts, read 2,414,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLoveTo View Post
NDT is a pituitary TSH suppressant. It's in the informational packet that comes with the drug even. So people on NDT will have a very suppressed TSH and it's not even worth testing. Instead they will go by symptoms, temps and FT3 RT3 etc. If the patient isn't having any hyper symptoms, there is no reason to think they are hyper or worry about the suppressed TSH as the drug is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

Here is the sheet for NP Thyroid https://npthyroid.com/wp-content/upl...roid_WebPI.pdf

To the OP - I started on Levo, would feel great for about 2 weeks then crash and feel worse again. I forget how high a dose I got up to, but after a year I found a doctor that would let me try NDT and that worked much better. I've tried synthetics twice and they didn't work out well. Now I have hormones messing things up so I'm trying to balance all that again.

But - there are many people who do well on synthetics!

If it were me, I'd look at the fillers. I'd also look at my diet - when I started to clean up my diet I discovered I would get itchy skin with things like bread and then I developed allergies to an ingredient in sunblock, and now am even allergic to one of 4 ingredients in natural bug spray and I haven't had the time to isolate them to figure out which it is.
Not sure why you quoted me in your reply. I was simply talking about TSH levels. The OP is not taking NDT - she asked about switching from generic to Synthroid. Her TSH level was low and she wanted her dose increased. That's not the way it works. That is and was my only point.

And FWIW, I don't think TSH is the end all be all of lab testing for thyroid issues. I think that all thyroid levels should be checked, but that the most important issue in treatment is how the patient is feeling and responding to their dosage.
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Old 08-29-2018, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
4,923 posts, read 4,230,895 times
Reputation: 16370
I agree Vrexy, and I instantly thought the same thing when I read the post that said her TSH was low, but she wanted to increase dosage. TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone. It stimulates the thyroid to create more hormones, so when TSH goes up that means your thyroid dose is too low and it's trying to tell your body to increase the hormones. When it is below normal range, it is your body telling you that the current dose is too high and it is decreasing the stimulation.

My doctor checks T3 and T4 levels every time I go in, in addition to TSH. She knows that I feel best when my T3 and T4 are at the high end of normal and TSH is almost zero. I've had Hashi's for 35+ years (which is almost as many years as my doc has been alive) and she listens to me. I'm now on a combo of Levo (T4) and Liothyronine (T3). We like doing it this way, versus using the Armour that I used for years, because we can tweak one med without affecting the other. It's also cheaper for me, since I was taking two doses of different strengths of Armour to attain the correct dosage, and it was costing me a fortune because Armour was non-formulary on my insurance and it was costing me $40 a month.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Surfside Beach, SC
1,800 posts, read 2,414,498 times
Reputation: 3035
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
I agree Vrexy, and I instantly thought the same thing when I read the post that said her TSH was low, but she wanted to increase dosage. TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone. It stimulates the thyroid to create more hormones, so when TSH goes up that means your thyroid dose is too low and it's trying to tell your body to increase the hormones. When it is below normal range, it is your body telling you that the current dose is too high and it is decreasing the stimulation.

My doctor checks T3 and T4 levels every time I go in, in addition to TSH. She knows that I feel best when my T3 and T4 are at the high end of normal and TSH is almost zero. I've had Hashi's for 35+ years (which is almost as many years as my doc has been alive) and she listens to me. I'm now on a combo of Levo (T4) and Liothyronine (T3). We like doing it this way, versus using the Armour that I used for years, because we can tweak one med without affecting the other. It's also cheaper for me, since I was taking two doses of different strengths of Armour to attain the correct dosage, and it was costing me a fortune because Armour was non-formulary on my insurance and it was costing me $40 a month.
Exactly! Thanks for understanding what I was trying to explain. Not sure why others didn't, but oh well. I'm glad you found a doctor who is willing to work with you and listen to you, so that you could find a solution for your thyroid issues. She sounds wonderful.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:42 AM
 
1,953 posts, read 758,392 times
Reputation: 7794
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseyj View Post
I know that Synthroid is not pig thyroid. My suggestion to the OP was to find a Dr. willing to work with her to alleviate her symptoms.

My Endo wanted to try switching me from Levo to Synthroid and raise the dosage before we tried anything else. She is not opposed to dessicated but was concerned about starting from scratch because porcine thyroid is measured in grains.
That's ridiculous! My doctor had an app to do the conversion 8 years ago. If nothing else there are charts to do that ALL OVER THE FREAKIN' INTERNET!

https://getrealthyroid.com/conversion-guide.html
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:54 AM
 
185 posts, read 63,086 times
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I've had 3 doctors tell me not to get the generic. The pharmacy at my clinic won't even carry the generic. Why? Because the FDA allow generics to go 20% either way and when you have a thyroid condition, it has to be precise. If it's off just a little, you are fatigued.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:28 AM
 
18,913 posts, read 6,185,164 times
Reputation: 12714
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrexy View Post
I didn't say you were increasing your dose. I said IF your TSH went lower, let me repeat that, IF it went LOWER, the appropriate response would NOT be to INCREASE the dose. It was a hypothetical statement.

And no, you can't always "count on numbers" but you certainly don't do the opposite of what is indicated by a lab value. Capice?

Again, you don't seem to comprehend what I'm saying.

I capice what you are saying BUT I also go back to the Symptoms that were used before Syn and guidelines were brought to the medical world. I am re-reading curezone article and reading more from Dr. Barnes and it was NOT numbers used for years before the Syn and their numbers.

My TSH is very low and I am doing very well in the thyroid business.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:39 AM
 
18,913 posts, read 6,185,164 times
Reputation: 12714
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
I agree Vrexy, and I instantly thought the same thing when I read the post that said her TSH was low, but she wanted to increase dosage. TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone. It stimulates the thyroid to create more hormones, so when TSH goes up that means your thyroid dose is too low and it's trying to tell your body to increase the hormones. When it is below normal range, it is your body telling you that the current dose is too high and it is decreasing the stimulation.

My doctor checks T3 and T4 levels every time I go in, in addition to TSH. She knows that I feel best when my T3 and T4 are at the high end of normal and TSH is almost zero. I've had Hashi's for 35+ years (which is almost as many years as my doc has been alive) and she listens to me. I'm now on a combo of Levo (T4) and Liothyronine (T3). We like doing it this way, versus using the Armour that I used for years, because we can tweak one med without affecting the other. It's also cheaper for me, since I was taking two doses of different strengths of Armour to attain the correct dosage, and it was costing me a fortune because Armour was non-formulary on my insurance and it was costing me $40 a month.
I did well on Armour for many years from 2002 and then they changed formulas and then sold Forest etc etc and prices keep rising, in the beginning it was very very affordable and now it's too pricey for me. So I've found NT does it and almost half the cost of Armour now. Any chance NT could work for you.

I was told I had Hashi many years ago and don't know where that subject is now. Don't bother with it. I take under 2mg Iodine daily and some times Selenium and now the NT and all seems OK. Especially from where I've been and certainly no depression and no real fatigue but it doesn't reverse the advancing years..

I count on other supps as well to keep the body working and getting good sleep.

I'm not OP as some seem to think maybe.
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Old 08-29-2018, 10:59 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 1,859,562 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrexy View Post
Not sure why you quoted me in your reply. I was simply talking about TSH levels. The OP is not taking NDT - she asked about switching from generic to Synthroid. Her TSH level was low and she wanted her dose increased. That's not the way it works. That is and was my only point.

And FWIW, I don't think TSH is the end all be all of lab testing for thyroid issues. I think that all thyroid levels should be checked, but that the most important issue in treatment is how the patient is feeling and responding to their dosage.
Hi! I know - you weren't replying to the OP, I just used your comment as an example of why we sometimes ignore a low TSH. Jamin is on NDT so yes her TSH would be suppressed. That's all

Glad you are able to go by feeling - I've had doctors who, every time I say I feel like crap, offer to run another test and then not treat. It's frustrating!
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