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Old 10-13-2018, 04:54 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Maybe you thought your doctor was too pushy in his attitude but yes, I DO expect a doctor to give me recommendations - why else would I go to them?
Reading comprehension. Middle aged people do not have PEDIATRICIANS for their doctors. These doctors have no right to tell the ADULT PARENTS of their children patients what to do for THEMSELVES. This pediatrician was mad because I didn't follow his advice for my teens, so he tried to attack ME and bullying ME telling me to get that vax as well. I said to him, "I am not a ***** or drug addict". "Are you telling that I AM?" Walked out when he said that.

When I switched my teens then to a GP, I never heard anything more about that Hep. B. vax. He certainly never told ME to get it because I was not HIS PATIENT.

 
Old 10-13-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26466
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Paps are meant to catch precancerous changes to cervical cells. Pre-cancerous. Got it yet?

Please stop downplaying the importance of paps in the prevention of cervical cancer.
Even if it is precancerous the HPV virus has already initiated the events that can result in invasive cancer. When the precancer is treated, the virus is still there. That means that there can be a recurrence of the abnormal Pap. I still do not understand why it is better to treat an abnormal Pap than to prevent it by preventing the HPV infection that causes the cancer process to start.


Do you care to tell us how to prevent HPV associated vulvar, anal, penile, and throat cancer?
 
Old 10-13-2018, 05:02 PM
 
8,542 posts, read 5,264,452 times
Reputation: 9100
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Even if it is precancerous the HPV virus has already initiated the events that can result in invasive cancer. When the precancer is treated, the virus is still there. That means that there can be a recurrence of the abnormal Pap. I still do not understand why it is better to treat an abnormal Pap than to prevent it by preventing the HPV infection that causes the cancer process to start.


Do you care to tell us how to prevent HPV associated vulvar, anal, penile, and throat cancer?
I never said itís better to just get regular paps and treat if necessary. Iím saying itís pretty darn effective. No one will stop you from getting the HPV vaccine. I donít know why you are so insistent that itís the only way to stay healthy. People can make choices when it comes to their health and your agreement with those choices is not relevant.

Remind me of the rate of HPV associated cancers beyond cervical including death rates, co-factors and how strong those co -factors are as well as death rates. From what I recall, there are strong co-factors involved in all and these are rare cancers. We have talked about this before. Iím not interested in repeating mysef over and over and over again.
 
Old 10-13-2018, 05:03 PM
 
5,644 posts, read 3,196,510 times
Reputation: 6628
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I guess no one ever taught you that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I know a woman who went through treatment for cervical cancer. Even though the treatment was successful, I think she would have done anything to have avoided in the first place.

Than there was the fear the treatment wouldn't be successful or that the cancer would reoccur.
Yeah, "prevention" is $$$$$ today. Then people complain about how much their insurance is. None of your "free" prevention care is free.
 
Old 10-13-2018, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,967 posts, read 98,814,535 times
Reputation: 31376
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I never said it’s better to just get regular paps and treat if necessary. I’m saying it’s pretty darn effective. No one will stop you from getting the HPV vaccine. I don’t know why you are so insistent that it’s the only way to stay healthy. People can make choices when it comes to their health and your agreement with those choices is not relevant.

Remind me of the rate of HPV associated cancers beyond cervical including death rates, co-factors and how strong those co -factors are as well as death rates. From what I recall, there are strong co-factors involved in all and these are rare cancers. We have talked about this before. I’m not interested in repeating mysef over and over and over again.
The vaccine is the only way to PREVENT the infection. There is no other way. You can talk all you want about co-factors and other sciency sounding words, but the fact is, the causative agent is HPV. No HPV, no cervical cancer. And that's only one kind of cancer caused by HPV.

Now you're sending suzy and whoever else is interested on a fishing expedition about other HPV cancers. Rare my derriere! I already posted some statistics, at least twice, about how many HPV oropharyngeal cancers are diagnosed every year. And there's no test for those. Those are the two main HPV caused cancers, but there are also cancer of the vulva, anus and penis. Again, no tests.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-13-2018 at 05:55 PM..
 
Old 10-13-2018, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26466
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I never said itís better to just get regular paps and treat if necessary. Iím saying itís pretty darn effective. No one will stop you from getting the HPV vaccine. I donít know why you are so insistent that itís the only way to stay healthy. People can make choices when it comes to their health and your agreement with those choices is not relevant.

Remind me of the rate of HPV associated cancers beyond cervical including death rates, co-factors and how strong those co -factors are as well as death rates. From what I recall, there are strong co-factors involved in all and these are rare cancers. We have talked about this before. Iím not interested in repeating mysef over and over and over again.
You have certainly heavily pushed the idea of just getting a Pap smear rather than taking the vaccine. No matter how effective the Pap smear is, it is better to never have an abnormal one at all. The vaccine increases the probability that the smear will never be abnormal. In fact, testing for high risk HPV can replace the Pap smear.

You could have a Pap smear once a month and it would never detect the other non-genital HPV associated cancers in women, and there are no screening tests for those HPV associated cancers in men. These are not rare cancers, either.

Oropharyngeal cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4964634/

"Recent population-based estimates found that nearly 13,000 Americans are diagnosed with HPV-related OPSCC each year, ..."

"The average age at diagnosis is younger for HPV-positive OPSCC than for HPV-negative OPSCC (53 versus 57 years). HPV-positive patients are also more likely to be male, Caucasian, college educated, have an annual income of $50,000 or higher, and to be non-alcohol and/or tobacco abusers. Risk factors for HPV-positive OPSCC include early age of onset of sexual activity, a higher numbers of sexual partners and oral sex with partners that have genital warts."

The article also discusses the morbidity from treatment of orophayngeal cancer, which is considerable, even if the patient survives.

"Despite advances to reduce morbidity for HPV-related OPSCC, with increasing annual incidence comes greater annualized mortality. Thousands die each year from the disease and thousands more deal with sequelae from their treatment. Now with vaccines targeting the carcinogenic strains of HPV available, prevention would become the ultimate form of disease control."

The number of cases of oropharyngeal cancer surpassed the number of cases of cervical cancer in 2015:

https://www.healio.com/hematology-on...ociated-cancer

The risk factors for HPV associated cancers are primarily sexual behaviors. Good luck getting people to change those.

CDC: Mouth area now most common site of HPV-linked cancer | CIDRAP

"In a press release, the CDC said studies suggest that HPV causes about 79% of all cancers in parts of the body where HPV is often found. The agency asserted that HPV vaccination could prevent 90% of US cancer cases caused by the virus, or 31,200 annually.."

About 70% of oropharyngeal cancers are associated with HPV 16.

https://www.mountsinai.org/locations...ncer/oral/faqs

With excellent care, 5 year survival approaches 80 to 95%.

HPV 16 infections can be prevented with Gardasil.
 
Old 10-13-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,996 posts, read 17,150,498 times
Reputation: 30133
This thread has become a vaccine debate and is closed.
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