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Old 11-30-2018, 09:00 AM
 
18,425 posts, read 10,080,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Lack of protein doesn't cause osteoporosis....and calcium can easily come from veggies like spinach and certainly from milk (if she wasn't vegan) - there is lots of confusion on these matters.
Going back to the situation of a place like India where a vegetarian diet is a matter of very long term cultural practice, a sufficiently healthy vegetarian diet would have been worked out long ago. It what people would cultivate, what would be commonly found in markets, what everyone grew up with. It would no longer take special care or planning for the average person.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:38 AM
 
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I actually had my first major health crisis because of my “healthy” vegetarian diet, although it took me quite a few years to realize it. Long story short, although being fit and eating what I thought was a healthy (vegetarian) diet, I had an attack of severe diverticulitis when I was 37. No one in my family had had diverticulitis, much less at such a young age. The doctors were all scratching their heads too. They said that mostly obese men get diverticulitis at such a young age, not women who looked like me. I was in a teaching hospital and was apparently such a curiosity that they took groups of med students around to see me.

After a number of subsequent attacks, having part of my colon removed, having more attacks, I finally realized it was the fiber in my diet that was provoking the attacks. I stopped being a vegetarian and greatly limited the amount of whole grain and beans I consumed and have been much better. Only one mild attack in the last 10 years, after having been hospitalized every 9 months for years.

Full disclosure — I also greatly reduced the stress in my life, take probiotics and generally try to avoid sugar, so it wasn’t just the fiber. However, looking back I could clearly see that my attacks were triggered by excess fiber consumption. My very first attack came right after a delicious and copious lunch at an all-you-can-eat Indian vegetarian buffet. I have know idea how much fiber I consumed during that meal, but I did have lots and lots of chickpeas and dals.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
5,143 posts, read 9,485,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill_Schramm View Post
I actually had my first major health crisis because of my “healthy” vegetarian diet, although it took me quite a few years to realize it. Long story short, although being fit and eating what I thought was a healthy (vegetarian) diet, I had an attack of severe diverticulitis when I was 37. No one in my family had had diverticulitis, much less at such a young age. The doctors were all scratching their heads too. They said that mostly obese men get diverticulitis at such a young age, not women who looked like me. I was in a teaching hospital and was apparently such a curiosity that they took groups of med students around to see me.

After a number of subsequent attacks, having part of my colon removed, having more attacks, I finally realized it was the fiber in my diet that was provoking the attacks. I stopped being a vegetarian and greatly limited the amount of whole grain and beans I consumed and have been much better. Only one mild attack in the last 10 years, after having been hospitalized every 9 months for years.

Full disclosure — I also greatly reduced the stress in my life, take probiotics and generally try to avoid sugar, so it wasn’t just the fiber. However, looking back I could clearly see that my attacks were triggered by excess fiber consumption. My very first attack came right after a delicious and copious lunch at an all-you-can-eat Indian vegetarian buffet. I have know idea how much fiber I consumed during that meal, but I did have lots and lots of chickpeas and dals.
That's interesting. My rare diverticulitis attacks have come from eating popcorn and those little Wasabi pea things with the hard shell. Eating large amounts of vegetables doesn't bring on attacks (for me).

My doctor said I likely formed the pockets of diverticulosis from being constipated and straining. Not enough fiber/water? I used to eat a crappy diet of too much fast food.

Anyhow, different strokes for different folks. I, too, was slender and fit at the time of my diagnosis. Haven't had a new episode in years. Have to avoid popcorn for the rest of my life, though. I make sure to eat lots of fresh, stir-fried, or steamed vegetables now, plus apples, and drink ample water.

I'm an omnivore, but animal protein is more a condiment than a main dish in my diet. I sometimes add a bit of chicken or pork or lean beef to a stir-fried veggie dish.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:50 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
1,827 posts, read 679,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Lack of protein doesn't cause osteoporosis....and calcium can easily come from veggies like spinach and certainly from milk (if she wasn't vegan) - there is lots of confusion on these matters.

A vegetarian really has to go out of his way planning meals to get an adequate array of the important vitamins & minerals..and the reason I said earlier that they're sadly mistaken about helping the environment is that to get that adequate supply, they have to rely on long range transportation of food stuffs to do so...very hard to be a vegan and to "eat local" for most of us.


Spinach, for instance, supplies only 3% of the RDA of calcium (you'd need to eat 33 servings/day to get enough). There is NO good vegetable source of calcium. Only dairy is a GOOD source. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts...roducts/2626/2


In regards vegetarianism in India-- not a lot of heavy weight boxers, weight lifters or football players coming out of India, and those 17th century Flemish painters weren't using Olive Oyl as their model.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:54 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,666 posts, read 29,456,811 times
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Several Vegetarians I know seem weak and lethargic. I think it is more a matter of it being their nature although, I do find all vegetarians I've known to be more passive in nature. Itmight just be coincidence.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:00 AM
 
3,380 posts, read 2,406,464 times
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I was a vegetarian for 10 years and looking back, it was the only time in my life that I was not in great health, despite eating what I thought was super healthy and exercising strenuously several times a week. I do better eating mostly meat, seafood and vegetables.

My mother ate very little meat her whole life. Her back is a mess with osteoporosis and arthritis. One of my good friends, very healthy and a vegetarian, also just got diagnosed with osteoporosis and she was shocked.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,666 posts, read 29,456,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill_Schramm View Post
I actually had my first major health crisis because of my “healthy” vegetarian diet, although it took me quite a few years to realize it. Long story short, although being fit and eating what I thought was a healthy (vegetarian) diet, I had an attack of severe diverticulitis when I was 37. No one in my family had had diverticulitis, much less at such a young age. The doctors were all scratching their heads too. They said that mostly obese men get diverticulitis at such a young age, not women who looked like me. I was in a teaching hospital and was apparently such a curiosity that they took groups of med students around to see me.

After a number of subsequent attacks, having part of my colon removed, having more attacks, I finally realized it was the fiber in my diet that was provoking the attacks. I stopped being a vegetarian and greatly limited the amount of whole grain and beans I consumed and have been much better. Only one mild attack in the last 10 years, after having been hospitalized every 9 months for years.

Full disclosure — I also greatly reduced the stress in my life, take probiotics and generally try to avoid sugar, so it wasn’t just the fiber. However, looking back I could clearly see that my attacks were triggered by excess fiber consumption. My very first attack came right after a delicious and copious lunch at an all-you-can-eat Indian vegetarian buffet. I have know idea how much fiber I consumed during that meal, but I did have lots and lots of chickpeas and dals.
Animal fat is very important to the functioning of the alimentary system. It is the "grease", so to speak, that keeps things moving. Vegetable fat just does not provide the same benefit.

I was on my way to a similar situation when I abandonded healthy eating for a fat-rich diet and have felt a thousand times better physically since. The joy of having a good bowel movement cannot be overstated after having suffered without for, literally decades.
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Central IL
13,712 posts, read 7,361,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
A vegetarian really has to go out of his way planning meals to get an adequate array of the important vitamins & minerals..and the reason I said earlier that they're sadly mistaken about helping the environment is that to get that adequate supply, they have to rely on long range transportation of food stuffs to do so...very hard to be a vegan and to "eat local" for most of us.


Spinach, for instance, supplies only 3% of the RDA of calcium (you'd need to eat 33 servings/day to get enough). There is NO good vegetable source of calcium. Only dairy is a GOOD source. https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts...roducts/2626/2


In regards vegetarianism in India-- not a lot of heavy weight boxers, weight lifters or football players coming out of India, and those 17th century Flemish painters weren't using Olive Oyl as their model.
Luckily, VEGETARIANS can eat dairy so calcium is NOT a problem (very few people are vegan and don't eat dairy - they have their own issues).

Also, most people don't want or need to be heavy weight boxers or football players....
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:59 AM
 
18,425 posts, read 10,080,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
Luckily, VEGETARIANS can eat dairy so calcium is NOT a problem (very few people are vegan and don't eat dairy - they have their own issues).
Glad someone made that distinction.
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:01 AM
 
Location: equator
2,683 posts, read 1,164,280 times
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I was vegetarian for awhile and ended up in the hospital from TOO MUCH fiber. It can happen. Blocked the emptying valve (forgot name) in the stomach so blew up like a pregnant women. I had to have the gas pumped out of my stomach. Not fun.

"Less fiber" said the doctor. When have most of us ever heard that?
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