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In a few days I will be 64 and I have been dealing with bulging discs since 1990. I won’t go into all the treatments I’ve had since then, but a short list includes spinal injections 3 times, 15 total months of rehab/therapy/exercise training, more Dr. visits than I can count,electrical stimulus, and the list goes on.
What I have not had is surgery. I must can’t bring myself to risk it after speaking with so many who have had it and are worse off because of it. I had a surgeon tell me he could reduce my back pain but wouldn’t guarantee he could eliminate the sciatica. No deal.
I have learned to live with the pain, which is nearly constant. I take no meds except for Advil, which takes the edge off for a couple of hours. My quality of life is poor as I have no back strength to speak of and the sciatica renders me nearly immobile most days. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone, and I am tired after nearly 30 years of the constant pain.
I am 67, MRI and x-ray shows I have spinal stenosis, scoliosis, probably spinal arthritis too. Degenerative spondylolistesis at L4-L5,resulting in pinched nerve and pain when standing or walking. A very well regarded orthopedic surgeon rejected my suggestion of a minimally-invasive laminectomy, saying since 2 discs were involved, fusion and a more expansive procedure would be needed, and he didn't think the results would be all that good.
I had an injection, did nothing. Various stretching, nothing. I guess since it doesn't hurt when sleeping on my side or sitting, I should just accept the pain when standing or walking? For the rest of my life
People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. I've had three back fusions, and two cervical fusions. When the pain became significant, for me it's off to surgery. I go to Johns Hopkins and find that a really good doctor combined with a good hospital makes all the difference in the world.
All of my surgeries have been successful, and I have well over 35 surgeries. I don't feel like saying the actual number as I would seem to be crazy, which I am not. Crazy is being in pain for way too long, putting off surgery and suffering in the meantime.
I am 65 and have had low back pain for 40 years but I've never had surgery. I recommend that you read Back Mechanic by Dr.Stuart McGill before getting any surgery. It's the best book on back pain I've ever read.
Herniated disc on L5 at 65 years old.
MRI revealed the L5 has the posterior section is broken off with two clean breaks, not connected at all.
Spinal Doctor says it has been broken for 30 or 40 years maybe longer and I never knew it and it has never healed.
If not for the herniated disc it would not have been discovered.
Now I have opted for fusion L5-S1.
The surgery was delayed due to my BP being too high which has given me more time to rethink surgery and research it further.
Am now in doubt as to whether I should go ahead with it or cancel.
I am currently feeling much better only over the past 3 days or so as less nerves are currently be pinched. Was able to get some good stretches today and even took a 2 mile walk which felt good to do.
Anyone have this same fusion and was satisfied with the results?
Herniated disc on L5 at 65 years old.
MRI revealed the L5 has the posterior section is broken off with two clean breaks, not connected at all.
Spinal Doctor says it has been broken for 30 or 40 years maybe longer and I never knew it and it has never healed.
If not for the herniated disc it would not have been discovered.
Now I have opted for fusion L5-S1.
The surgery was delayed due to my BP being too high which has given me more time to rethink surgery and research it further.
Am now in doubt as to whether I should go ahead with it or cancel.
I am currently feeling much better only over the past 3 days or so as less nerves are currently be pinched. Was able to get some good stretches today and even took a 2 mile walk which felt good to do.
Anyone have this same fusion and was satisfied with the results?
I told my story above and will copy it in case it's on a different page because I have it set to show 40 posts per page.
I have a friend who was 61 when she had her L5 fused. She had good results for over a year, now she is in just as bad of shape as me, maybe worst, hard to say because she had just driven 2 hours to buy medical pot. She could barely walk. I also have issues driving longer then 30 or 40 minutes, so I haven't driven longer much in the last 10 years.
My neighbors lady friends son was fused right before me in 2001, he was in horrible shape after surgery.
I used to be friends with my daughters now neighbor 10 years ago. She was also fused in the lumbar, she's also worst. I helped her find her lost dog. I saw her in Walgreens one day, she told me she was going for the fusion. I started telling her that I was also fused, she stopped me, telling me she didn't want to hear bad results. I didn't tell her anything before she stopped me, so I stopped talking. She really didn't know what I was going to say. I wished her luck, told her it sounded like she had a great Philadelphia doctor who knew what he was doing. She unfriended me. I do wonder if she regrets not hearing what I had to say. I'm not sure if she realizes who I am when she sees me at my daughters.
As I said in my other post, backs are not made to be fused stiff, they're supposed to bend. If you have to have surgery, find a doctor that does the flexible artificial disk. They've been out for 20 years, Germany has been doing them longer then that with great results. I don't know why the US is so far behind with spine surgery. If you really need your back done and you can come up with about $10,000, I highly recommend going to Germany. Very easy to consult these days with telemed. Back then, people mailed their scan CD's.
You're right to second guess surgery. Something is telling you to not do it. I was the same way, I wish I would have listened to myself. Once you're fused, you have no options, so seriously think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr
I agree with the others, you need more opinions, both with ortho and neuro surgeons.
I started out with bad spasms in my butt and a herniated L5-S1. I had a laminectomy that did not work. From what I've read they either work or they make you worst. I was worst. I then jumped into an L5-S1 fusion with something called an LT cage. It used cadaver bone; no rods or screws. Worst mistake I ever made. Don't get me wrong, I was ok for a few months after but boy was that sort lived!
A few months after my fusion the new flexible fusion became available. I wish I would have waited because backs are not made to be fused stiff; they need to be able to flex. I'm now fused with rods and screws since 2006 and am in more pain now then when I originally started.
About a year later I was getting acupuncture when a gal walked in; she was moving really well when here I was barely able to walk; I was using a cane and moving slow. Here she was walking fine and not sitting slow, she plopped herself down in the chair like she was fine. She told me she had her back done in Germany. She had 2 lower levels, a few thoracic and cervical using flexible disks. She said it cost her under $10,000. She was 2 years out of surgery. I did a bunch of googling after I got home; unfortunately they couldn't help me since I was fused stiff. Had I not made the mistake of being fused I surely would have gone over there because everything I googled was favorable. If you ever get to the point of needing fusion you should also consider it.
You may want to do some googling to see effects of laminectomy for someone with your history. You're a tough case to start off with.
Here are a few Germany links for anyone interested
Herniated disc on L5 at 65 years old.
MRI revealed the L5 has the posterior section is broken off with two clean breaks, not connected at all.
Spinal Doctor says it has been broken for 30 or 40 years maybe longer and I never knew it and it has never healed.
Something may have been lost in translation here. There's some inconsistency in what you think the doc said...The age of a bone injury is determined by how it has healed (calcium/"scar" build up.). If it hasn't healed, then how does he know how old it is?
Secondly, if you've lived with it for 30 yrs and didn;t know it, does it need to be fixed?
And most importantly-- herniated lumbar discs pinch the sciatic nerve at its roots. The brain is fooled into thinking it's the far end of the nerve that is irritated, so "sciatica' is pain/numbness/muscle weakness in the foot &/or leg, NOT the back....Any proceedure to alleviate the pressure on the nerve root will only make the leg/foot sympoms better--NOT the back pain.
People with herniated discs (much more commonly found now that we have CTs & MRIs) often also have spondylisthesis (vertebrae that slide forward/backward) &/or spondylosis (arthritic calcifications/deformities) that can stretch the long ligamaents that hold the vertebrae in place. THAT can cause low back pain....
...but far and away the most common cause of low back pain is a difference in the muscle tension between the R & L psoas muscles...That takes exercise/physical therapy to alleviate with speicial attention to mechanics (posture & how you do things)....
Both assymptomatic herniation of discs and psoas muscle problems are so common that it's not unusual to have both simultaneously....Disc surgery without sciatica doesn't make sense, and won't help low back pain.
Get an opinion from a surgeon whose mortgage payments are up to date.
I slipped a disc in my liwer back. The pain was excruciating. I couuldn't move at all, had to lie flat.
Getting up and going to the bathroom was a terrible experience.
Doctor got me on codeine to ride through the worst of it.
Something may have been lost in translation here. There's some inconsistency in what you think the doc said...The age of a bone injury is determined by how it has healed (calcium/"scar" build up.). If it hasn't healed, then how does he know how old it is?
Secondly, if you've lived with it for 30 yrs and didn;t know it, does it need to be fixed?
And most importantly-- herniated lumbar discs pinch the sciatic nerve at its roots. The brain is fooled into thinking it's the far end of the nerve that is irritated, so "sciatica' is pain/numbness/muscle weakness in the foot &/or leg, NOT the back....Any proceedure to alleviate the pressure on the nerve root will only make the leg/foot sympoms better--NOT the back pain.
People with herniated discs (much more commonly found now that we have CTs & MRIs) often also have spondylisthesis (vertebrae that slide forward/backward) &/or spondylosis (arthritic calcifications/deformities) that can stretch the long ligamaents that hold the vertebrae in place. THAT can cause low back pain....
...but far and away the most common cause of low back pain is a difference in the muscle tension between the R & L psoas muscles...That takes exercise/physical therapy to alleviate with speicial attention to mechanics (posture & how you do things)....
Both assymptomatic herniation of discs and psoas muscle problems are so common that it's not unusual to have both simultaneously....Disc surgery without sciatica doesn't make sense, and won't help low back pain.
Get an opinion from a surgeon whose mortgage payments are up to date.
I have Spondylolisthesis of the L5 and it is due to the posterior of it being separate from the rest of that vertebrae.
I'm told that there is nothing there to hold it and presently it has slipped forward somewhat and is stretching the disc with it as it advances forward.
It's a tough decision. When they open you up and do surgery, unless you were in really bad shape and it was an emergency type surgery, there's no telling what the results will be. That's why surgeons rarely operate on back unless it's something trauma related that absolutely needs it. I had some back pain and was scared off reading about people who had operations and ended up in worse pain.
I have Spondylolisthesis of the L5 and it is due to the posterior of it being separate from the rest of that vertebrae.
I'm told that there is nothing there to hold it and presently it has slipped forward somewhat and is stretching the disc with it as it advances forward.
I wasn't a specialist and have never even heard of such a thing (the loose piece) let alone seen it. If the shifing vertabra stretches the ligaments holding it in place (compare it to beinding your knee sideways) and that gives you pain that's affecting your function or comfort, then a fusion could help.
Of coure I can't tell you what you should do without a proper examination. I can only tell you what you could do after proper cosultation with your docs....
After laminectomy (decompresion of nerve root) for herniated disc about half the pts still complain of pain. I bet that's because they didn;t have sciatic in the frsit place, only low back pain. There's also the problem that surgery causes scar tissue to fill in and that could then pinch the nerve again. You can't really control scar formation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4431053/
Spinal fusion rates depend on where you live-- imlying the surgeons' training influences how often they feel compelled to recommmend fusion proceedures. (When you only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail to you.) It's a bigger surgery so compliction rates are higher and complete success rates lower https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8747260/
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