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Old 03-12-2019, 07:41 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,528 posts, read 877,082 times
Reputation: 5118

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Reminds me of the case of the heavy smoker who was losing weight and then started coughing blood. He went to the doc who got a chest x-ray, which showed a large, ugly tumor. "Sorry to tell you, Joe-- it's cancer".. "How long do you give me, Doc?"...."Sorry to say, Joe-- I only give you three months."...A short silence, then Joe says 'That's bad. And to make it worse, I'm out of work and won't be able to pay you for a while."..."Oh. In that case, I'll give you six months."


You gotta have that touch of human compassion.


In regards the OP-- that's what you Socialists are voting for. Live with it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ <-> Silicon Valley, CA
6,512 posts, read 4,008,719 times
Reputation: 23989
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Pretty sure it says "IROBOT" on the picture above your post...
Yes, the telepresence robots are made by the same company that makes Roombas, the robot vacuum.

Quote:
And the point is this is an incredibly impersonal way to deliver devastating news devoid of human contact.....same as phoning it in which should be a last resort...
The doctor gets it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
23,932 posts, read 22,915,505 times
Reputation: 29322
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
His children and (I believe) grand daughter were there. He wasn't alone. The impression I got was that they kept asking and hoping for a different answer.

And as others have said, it was not a robot. My daughter was in the ER last year. There was a specialist they teleconferenced in (wheeled in a computer) and we talked to her and she to us and my daughter. It was a reciprocal conversation. We were able to ask questions and have them answered. I had no problems with our experience and appreciated that it was an option rather than waiting for hours in the ER for a specialist to appear in person.
Thank you. That doesn't seem at all weird to me.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:40 PM
 
4,876 posts, read 10,790,630 times
Reputation: 11335
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
His children and (I believe) grand daughter were there. He wasn't alone. The impression I got was that they kept asking and hoping for a different answer.

And as others have said, it was not a robot. My daughter was in the ER last year. There was a specialist they teleconferenced in (wheeled in a computer) and we talked to her and she to us and my daughter. It was a reciprocal conversation. We were able to ask questions and have them answered. I had no problems with our experience and appreciated that it was an option rather than waiting for hours in the ER for a specialist to appear in person.
It was absolutely a "robot"....

Why is this even a question, the company that manufacturers the device calls it a "robot"...

The hospital refers to it as a "robot"....

Every news story correctly references the device as a "robot"....
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:15 AM
 
395 posts, read 51,622 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerania View Post
The physician is human. He's not a robot.
for the purpose, that doesnt really do a **** of a lot of good.

hes a physician on his side-- hes a "robot" on the side talking to the patient. youre quibbling. this is like a breakup by text message, except worse. except in the example, the guy already knew he was dying, maybe? its not a good direction for healthcare to go in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
I had no problems with our experience and appreciated that it was an option rather than waiting for hours in the ER for a specialist to appear in person.
while im technically fine with it as an option, these options are often used to grandfather in non-options. slippery slope isnt a fallacy here, it isnt being presented as proof of anything-- but as a possibility that should be considered. would you really prefer that option if the situation was as serious as in the story?
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Washington state
5,039 posts, read 2,549,239 times
Reputation: 14900
Kaiser. It figures.

I really thought they'd gotten better but apparently not. This is the hospital that: in the ER put me in a room with a dog bite and forgot I was there (their words), sent home a little girl I knew with a "sprained" arm that was actually broken, sent home my supervisor's husband without finding out he'd had a heart attack, and when I went in for a physical, told me the urine sample I'd left them tested OK, even though I hadn't given them one. And what's worse, didn't want to believe I hadn't given them one and refused to change the record.

When our insurance at work went up, I went off of Kaiser and was uninsured when I had my appendix out. I went in to the county hospital and I think I had better care. I swear Kaiser would have killed me.

And these were in Kaiser hospitals not too far away from the one in the article.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:29 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,528 posts, read 877,082 times
Reputation: 5118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamicjson View Post
for the purpose, that doesnt really do a **** of a lot of good.

hes a physician on his side-- hes a "robot" on the side talking to the patient. youre quibbling. this is like a breakup by text message, except worse. except in the example, the guy already knew he was dying, maybe? its not a good direction for healthcare to go in.



while im technically fine with it as an option, these options are often used to grandfather in non-options. slippery slope isnt a fallacy here, it isnt being presented as proof of anything-- but as a possibility that should be considered. would you really prefer that option if the situation was as serious as in the story?

We can argue about what noun to use to describe the doc's image, but the only appropriate adjective is "impersonal." .Was it really a doctor on the screen or a computer generated image? https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...rson&FORM=IGRE Can you tell which ones are real people? Are you sure? When will they start slipping the fake ones in on us? Will they tell us?


Back in the 50s, we were all appalled when we read 1984- how BigBrother installed 2-way cameras in everyone's home and all over the streets to control the citizens. Sixty yrs later we don't say a peep to object to cameras monitoring traffic and we actually voluntarily buy monitors to put in our own homes for BigBrother to watch us....Our education system has failed us.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
17,257 posts, read 10,593,070 times
Reputation: 37069
Quote:
Originally Posted by platon20 View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/healt...GaLuObczdFeCYs

Sadly, this is the future.

Hospitals are trying to make more money by having no doctors in their ICU at night. Instead they hire 1 doc at a reduced rate who monitors hundreds of patients at multiple ICUs via the internet. When something goes south, he isn't in-house so he has to relay the news by video link.

Telehealth has its place if you are talking about a clinic location for routine illnesses or for stuff like dermatology or even psychiatry. But it has no business being in an ICU.

My ex is an RN and was recently working at a walk in clinic. They changed owners, and the new Dr owner is in Texas and she is here in Florida. They would pull him up on a tv screen and he would interact with the patient that way, with no Doctor present here to actually be with the patient !

She couldn't stand it and found another job where they actually have real, human Doctors who sit down with the patients, not some robot on the screen. And they call this progress, I guess.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:22 AM
 
395 posts, read 51,622 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Back in the 50s, we were all appalled when we read 1984- how BigBrother installed 2-way cameras in everyone's home and all over the streets to control the citizens. Sixty yrs later we don't say a peep to object to cameras monitoring traffic and we actually voluntarily buy monitors to put in our own homes for BigBrother to watch us....Our education system has failed us.
yes, for these reasons and more.

"dont you want to reform education?"

"i want to get rid of it."

"dont you think its important?"

"very, and thats exactly the reason."
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Upstate
5,673 posts, read 6,415,168 times
Reputation: 3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
We can argue about what noun to use to describe the doc's image, but the only appropriate adjective is "impersonal." ….Was it really a doctor on the screen or a computer generated image? https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...rson&FORM=IGRE Can you tell which ones are real people? Are you sure? When will they start slipping the fake ones in on us? Will they tell us?


Back in the 50s, we were all appalled when we read 1984- how BigBrother installed 2-way cameras in everyone's home and all over the streets to control the citizens. Sixty yrs later we don't say a peep to object to cameras monitoring traffic and we actually voluntarily buy monitors to put in our own homes for BigBrother to watch us....Our education system has failed us.
You nailed it. Sure it was a live doctor on the robot screen today, but in a few years, how will we really know? Heck the graphics of humans in video games are very, very realistic. I can't see why in a couple of years that it will be virtually indistinguishable to tell the difference. We already can speak to a robot advisor on the phone or Alexa, who can answer just about any question in a totally human conversational way. They just have to merge the two together and most people will be oblivious.
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