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Old Yesterday, 07:33 AM
 
818 posts, read 698,601 times
Reputation: 1338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
then explain why several societies (somehow other than ours) have a higher carb diet yet no weight problems?

it's not "along with calories" it's calories, period. Excess calories means weight gain.

Yes calories count but they are not the ONLY problem...far from it....


...Because many of these other countries/ societies had stuck to a more "natural" diet without the junk. American started poor eating habits way before they did since we were a more wealthy country.


Therefore, many, if not most, Americans now have what's called Metabolic Syndrome. THAT is what is making us fatter and sicker. We can no longer handle the carbs.


As an interesting note, thin rice eating Asians, who come to this country...when they start eating the Standard American Diet (called SAD- and yes that is how our diet is written in "shorthand"), these same Asian ppl gain weight and become "just like us".


Plus all those thin Asians are getting diabetes and high BP at a lower body weight then us. So they may look thin to you and me, but by Asian standards they may be "fatter" than the typical person in China, Japan, Korea, therefore there genetics can't "handle" the higher weight.


Many other cultures are very active- even the elderly. Many Europeans shop for food daily and walk to the stores. In Denmark the typical mode of transportation are bikes, even in winter. Americans watch TV with a remote so we don't need to get up and change the channel. Even our radios have remotes now. I've seen ppl drive to their mailbox and just lean out the window. We order food online and have our groceries delivered. We order take out so we don't need to walk and buy junk food.


It is thought that the average American teen is no more active than the average 60 yr old.




We also eat more crap foods and bad habits- soda (even for breakfast), fast foods, we eat alone often, we on the run, we eat a meal in 1/2 hr (in France lunch can be 2-3 hrs), we eat in the car while driving, etc. This is not how we- as humans- evolved to eat.


Diet, nutrition, weight, health, etc is VERY complicated and interconnected. There is no one size fits all. Americans and our physiology is a whole different ballgame. That's why we are getting fatter and sicker. The children being born today probably will NOT live longer and healthier than us, as children have in the past. Ten yr olds are developing Type 2 diabetes which is ONLY diet related. (Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease) We have to start waking up....


BTW- I'm an RN


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351916


https://chriskresser.com/how-a-paleo...olic-syndrome/


https://peterattiamd.com/how-do-some...carbohydrates/


https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-are-a...ce-eaters-thin


https://health.usnews.com/wellness/a...n-be-deceiving


https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/biking


https://medium.com/@davidludwigmd/de...a-d137ae07d1bb


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-c...least-walking/


Europeans Walk 3 Times More Than Americans--New Study




Why Europeans Are Thinner Than Americans


https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyl...rica-vs-Europe


Diabetes Myths: American Diabetes Association®


https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/type...e-6187210f14ce
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Central IL
14,602 posts, read 8,064,885 times
Reputation: 34255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
That is another myth, completely misleading. We should not try to live naturally, because the people who lived naturally dropped dead at 30 or 40.

NOT TRUE.

It is natural for a large percentage of babies to die, in any species. This is nature's not very nice way of keeping species healthy.

Modern medicine has made it possible for most babies to survive, partly because of antibiotics.

Therefore, the average lifespan increased dramatically in the mid 20th century.

NOT because our species became healthier, but because babies aren't dying like they used to.

So every time anyone says the primitive lifestyle was healthier, someone says what you just said.

This myth is used to promote the unhealthy modern lifestyle with all the pollution and harmful drugs. Well, if the modern lifestyle is so unhealthy, why do we live so much longer?

Our lives are longer, but definitely not healthier. There are several reasons why we live longer, the main one being low infant mortality. Also, no one is sure how long prehistoric people lived.

The more natural your diet and lifestyle is, the better. The modern industrial lifestyle is terribly unhealthy. And it is possible to live a long time in terrible health.
...and yet you've said you're not into the Paleo diet? How many cavewomen ate pasta, whole wheat or not? Do as I say, not as I do?

If you REALLY value your health isn't it worth the extra cost of MEAT, more MEAT, and FAT?
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Old Yesterday, 07:48 AM
 
818 posts, read 698,601 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
All of these fad type diets come and go. A new one comes along and everybody talks about how great it is and yet our society keeps getting more and more obese. Low/No carb diets has been one of the fads in recent years. I think it is silly for the most part. The science behind losing weight and keeping it off or never gaining it in the first place is actually pretty simple. It is really the calories that matter (the amount of energy potential in a food). If you consume more fuel (potential energy) than your body uses, it stores it as fat. So to maintain a weight you need to balance the fuel you consume and the amount you use. To lose weight you need to either consume less fuel or burn more to tip the balance. So simply put, eat less volume of food or eat foods with less energy (calories) or be more active or exercise, or a combination of the two. It really is just that simple.


The real reason low carb diets work is not because you aren't consuming carbs. It is because you are inadvertently also reducing your calorie intake. Many people when they enter into a low carb diet, also cut back on other things such as snacks and drinks throughout the day which is what results in their largest calorie reduction. They also make an effort to be more active. So it is really the effort of changing diet, being aware of what they consume and a little activity that results in the weight loss. They then go tell everybody how they lost weight "just by cutting out carbs" when in reality it is the reduction in calories along with some activity.
What you say is true...Keto (low/ no carb diets) are NOT meant to be lifelong. Some ppl have diabetes or a illness that they must do something about NOW...so a Keto diet (under a doctor's supervision) is great because you can lose weight fast. But it is VERY hard to say on and you do need some carbs for good health.


A Paleo diet is more like what you want (some paleo allows tiny occasional amounts of gluten free pasta, potato, and rice). You can also have carbs as a treat occasionally. If you make Lasagna for Christmas for the last 35 yrs- fine, go for it, and have your stuffing and pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving. You just can't eat like that every day...and most ppl do.


They have a muffin or bagel, or pancakes (on weekends) for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, pizza or pasta for dinner with garlic bread, or a meat with peas and mashed potatoes, a meat (hamburger on roll) with corn on the cob and mac or potato salad, and maybe 2 cookies while watching TV.


See the problem??!!


I've posted links above this post.
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Old Yesterday, 08:27 AM
 
818 posts, read 698,601 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyd609 View Post
Well the hunter gatherers lived until their 30's or 40's so maybe they weren't so healthy. It's a romantic notion to think they are the health ideal. But that is just flawed thinking. People who follow the paleo diet or no more healthy than people who eat from all the food groups.

It not that simple.....


Early humans died early due to famine, accidents and in childbirth. There were wars, animal attacks, illnesses, especially genetic, hemorrhages/ infections from accidents, etc. Life was dangerous and hard.


Some individuals (usually men) did avoid these things and lived a long time as archeologists have found.


Life expectancy in the 1700s, was less than 30, yet Benjamin Franklin died at 84.....


Yet think of it...if "cave man" only lived to 35 or 40, and yet in the US today, with better nutrition, medical care, supermarkets, Walmarts, central heat, and all our modern technology, our life expectancy is only 78 yrs for men (and cave men lived longer than early women due to childbirth deaths). So thousands of years later we are living only 30 yrs longer!!


America- with all our wealth and technology- is 51st in life expectancy. That means there are 49 countries where the ppl will out live us.


Places like Monaco (highest), japan, South Korea, Switzerland, Iceland, Spain, Italy, Canada (#17), sandinavian countries, etc. Even places like Bermuda, and other Caribbean islands have longer life expectancy.


Also it is the way ppl calculate the data. If you look at 2 children, 1 dies in a few weeks and the other lives to 70, the average lifespan comes to 35 yrs old. If you look at 10 couples: the women died at 17 in childbirth, but the men lived to 50, the average life span is 33. These are just simplified so you understand...


https://www.sapiens.org/body/human-lifespan-history/


BBC - Future - Do we really live longer than our ancestors?


https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/m...s-longest.html
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Old Yesterday, 08:51 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 1,137,580 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Speaking of MYTHS.....here is one that you propagate every chance you get despite how many times you have been corrected regarding the fallacy of your belief....

Lifespan has increased markedly in the past 70 years.....from an average of 61 years worldwide in 1950 to an average of 75 years in 2015....those are worldwide figures so there will be variability from country to country

Still a 14 year increase over the past 70 years is significant...

The other significant factor on this data.....it is based on the expected lifespan of a 10 year old in 1950 versus a 10 year old today.....

Which means these improvements in lifespan have NOTHING to do with infant mortality.....

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/l...untry=OWID_WRL
It was NOT 30 or 40 years before!!!!

And it increased IN SPITE OF the unhealthy unnatural lifestyle, partly because of antibiotics.

And 70 years ago is NOT prehistoric!!!!
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Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 1,137,580 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrykaren View Post
Yes calories count but they are not the ONLY problem...far from it....


...Because many of these other countries/ societies had stuck to a more "natural" diet without the junk. American started poor eating habits way before they did since we were a more wealthy country.


Therefore, many, if not most, Americans now have what's called Metabolic Syndrome. THAT is what is making us fatter and sicker. We can no longer handle the carbs.


As an interesting note, thin rice eating Asians, who come to this country...when they start eating the Standard American Diet (called SAD- and yes that is how our diet is written in "shorthand"), these same Asian ppl gain weight and become "just like us".


Plus all those thin Asians are getting diabetes and high BP at a lower body weight then us. So they may look thin to you and me, but by Asian standards they may be "fatter" than the typical person in China, Japan, Korea, therefore there genetics can't "handle" the higher weight.


Many other cultures are very active- even the elderly. Many Europeans shop for food daily and walk to the stores. In Denmark the typical mode of transportation are bikes, even in winter. Americans watch TV with a remote so we don't need to get up and change the channel. Even our radios have remotes now. I've seen ppl drive to their mailbox and just lean out the window. We order food online and have our groceries delivered. We order take out so we don't need to walk and buy junk food.


It is thought that the average American teen is no more active than the average 60 yr old.




We also eat more crap foods and bad habits- soda (even for breakfast), fast foods, we eat alone often, we on the run, we eat a meal in 1/2 hr (in France lunch can be 2-3 hrs), we eat in the car while driving, etc. This is not how we- as humans- evolved to eat.


Diet, nutrition, weight, health, etc is VERY complicated and interconnected. There is no one size fits all. Americans and our physiology is a whole different ballgame. That's why we are getting fatter and sicker. The children being born today probably will NOT live longer and healthier than us, as children have in the past. Ten yr olds are developing Type 2 diabetes which is ONLY diet related. (Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease) We have to start waking up....


BTW- I'm an RN


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20351916


https://chriskresser.com/how-a-paleo...olic-syndrome/


https://peterattiamd.com/how-do-some...carbohydrates/


https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-are-a...ce-eaters-thin


https://health.usnews.com/wellness/a...n-be-deceiving


https://denmark.dk/people-and-culture/biking


https://medium.com/@davidludwigmd/de...a-d137ae07d1bb


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/which-c...least-walking/


Europeans Walk 3 Times More Than Americans--New Study




Why Europeans Are Thinner Than Americans


https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyl...rica-vs-Europe


Diabetes Myths: American Diabetes Association®


https://medium.com/@drjasonfung/type...e-6187210f14ce
Right.
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Old Yesterday, 08:53 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 1,137,580 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
...and yet you've said you're not into the Paleo diet? How many cavewomen ate pasta, whole wheat or not? Do as I say, not as I do?

If you REALLY value your health isn't it worth the extra cost of MEAT, more MEAT, and FAT?
Everything is a trade off. I might change to paleo if I decide it's really worth it. But I feel ok now.
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Old Yesterday, 08:56 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 1,137,580 times
Reputation: 3109
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrykaren View Post
It not that simple.....


Early humans died early due to famine, accidents and in childbirth. There were wars, animal attacks, illnesses, especially genetic, hemorrhages/ infections from accidents, etc. Life was dangerous and hard.


Some individuals (usually men) did avoid these things and lived a long time as archeologists have found.


Life expectancy in the 1700s, was less than 30, yet Benjamin Franklin died at 84.....


Yet think of it...if "cave man" only lived to 35 or 40, and yet in the US today, with better nutrition, medical care, supermarkets, Walmarts, central heat, and all our modern technology, our life expectancy is only 78 yrs for men (and cave men lived longer than early women due to childbirth deaths). So thousands of years later we are living only 30 yrs longer!!


America- with all our wealth and technology- is 51st in life expectancy. That means there are 49 countries where the ppl will out live us.


Places like Monaco (highest), japan, South Korea, Switzerland, Iceland, Spain, Italy, Canada (#17), sandinavian countries, etc. Even places like Bermuda, and other Caribbean islands have longer life expectancy.


Also it is the way ppl calculate the data. If you look at 2 children, 1 dies in a few weeks and the other lives to 70, the average lifespan comes to 35 yrs old. If you look at 10 couples: the women died at 17 in childbirth, but the men lived to 50, the average life span is 33. These are just simplified so you understand...


https://www.sapiens.org/body/human-lifespan-history/


BBC - Future - Do we really live longer than our ancestors?


https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/m...s-longest.html
Right. Comparing lifespan now to lifespan "then" is very complicated and uncertain. People misuse the data to argue that the modern lifestyle is just fine and we can rely on drugs to keep us healthy.
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Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Illinois
126 posts, read 26,294 times
Reputation: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I guess I was really thinking about complex carbohydrates, like whole wheat, as an inexpensive and convenient way to get enough calories. This post was not meant to be about dieting for losing weight.
Funny, OP asked a question and most responses have been to justify the "diet" they are on, some for life, some for...well until a newer fancier easier fad comes around. Talking diets seems to be like talking religion or politics. This for some gets hackles raised, for others it's like preaching to the choir.
Bottom line, find what works best for YOU, and make it a lifestyle change, and then enjoy your life. It's yours to do as you wish.
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Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
 
818 posts, read 698,601 times
Reputation: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
Bottom line, find what works best for YOU, and make it a lifestyle change, and then enjoy your life. It's yours to do as you wish.
Very true. Because everyone is different, everyone has different health issues (or none), everyone has a different bank account, etc. you have to find what works for you: whether for weight loss or health.


Fortunately there are many options out now, even restaurants are offering gluten free (or other diet changes). Many ppl use GF for weight loss or health, and luckily if you have celiac disease, you can now live a normal life, where at 1 time you either did without or you got sicker and sicker until you died (as 1 example).


Some ppl go from 1 diet to another because they are always looking for the next quick fix...there's no such animal. You have to pick 1 you can live with and change you lifestyle.


My husband and I are on a paleo type diet- with very occasional treats of "forbidden" foods, simple because he is also low oxalate for kidney stones. He had 3 kidney surgeries and decided eating high oxalate foods at not worth it.


So we follow paleo and can't eat MOST veggies and fruits allowed on paleo. We eat basically melons occasionally and about 2-3 other fruits and about 15 different veggies- most are salad ingredients. And we eat meat, mostly fish and seafood. My husband can't drink tea due to high oxalate (green tea is OK). That is why we will occasionally get a treat- today after shopping it was a SMALL Dunkin Donut iced coffee, with mocha for me and caramel for him (chocolate is high oxalate) with almond milk for me and whole milk for him (nuts are high oxalates).


We are foodies and live to eat, but we gotta do what we have to do to stay healthy.....


Some with hearth disease or diabetes would need to modify a paleo diet for what works for them them.


There's no miracle fix and 1 size does not fit all...
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