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Old Today, 12:32 PM
 
1,893 posts, read 926,825 times
Reputation: 8013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
Thanks, but no thanks. And it's questioning the establishment, and why not.
"Questioning the establishment" is not what this forum is about.

Refusing to learn is never in your best interest, as it keeps you in the dark. Learning how things work makes life much simpler. Learn how a BP cuff works, use it on yourself, and you'll see that there is no trickery from "the establishment" involved.

 
Old Today, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Southern California
22,325 posts, read 7,559,874 times
Reputation: 14712
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
"Questioning the establishment" is not what this forum is about.

Refusing to learn is never in your best interest, as it keeps you in the dark. Learning how things work makes life much simpler. Learn how a BP cuff works, use it on yourself, and you'll see that there is no trickery from "the establishment" involved.
I'm talking about ME questioning the establishment...and many many are doing that more and more. On this forum and questioning it, I offer what I can and as you know I'm 98% alternative and that's where I mostly hang out and wander over here to add some pharma info.

I don't need to learn more about a stephscope etc....thanks.
 
Old Today, 01:01 PM
 
242 posts, read 73,116 times
Reputation: 476
Accuracy depends also on using the proper size cuff, where it's taken on your body, and the position of your arm. I take BP readings 30+ a day in the hospital I work at. Too large a cuff will give a lower reading, too small will give a higher reading. If someone's laying on their side, the arm facing up will be a lot lower. If it's taken on the wrist it won't be as accurate. We had one brand new Phillips vital machine that was top of the line, probably cost thousands, give readings that were 230/120 on a man, and at the same time the patient said he felt like he was going to die(which he says everyday). Everyone was concerned, the doctor was paged. In the end the machine was faulty. Multiple manual BP readings, and use of other automatic machines revealed his BP was around 100/80. The faulty vital machine was taken out of service for repair. BP's should be taken on a bare arm, with the artery marker lined up to the brachial artery, arm out straight, no movement, at level of heart or slightly below, not taken right after strenuous movement.
 
Old Today, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Illinois
121 posts, read 25,715 times
Reputation: 237
IMO, it seems most of the "establishment" is more concerned about their profit than our health.
 
Old Today, 01:17 PM
 
1,893 posts, read 926,825 times
Reputation: 8013
The "establishment" as you call the medical community, has insurance companies watching them like hawks. Insurance companies do not pay for medical treatments and procedures unless they are necessary. Doctors can't make up illnesses so they can profit from them by prescribing treatments that are not necessary, because insurance companies won't allow it. Not only that, but the vast majority of doctors are actually not quacks or thieves.

You can't and don't understand anything if you refuse to learn about it. It's like living in the dark ages and being certain that thunder and lightning mean the gods are angry at you, rather than learning how thunder and lightning are produced. Why not learn how things work and then understand that your conspiracy theories aren't correct?

The tinfoil theorists are paranoid, and there is actual treatment for that actual impairment, and insurance would pay for it.


To stay on topic, BP readings are variable, and machines are variable. To be diagnosed with hypertension (which is not just an occasional high reading), multiple readings are taken at multiple visits. If the readings are persistently elevated, then hypertension is diagnosed, and a remedy offered.
 
Old Today, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Southern California
22,325 posts, read 7,559,874 times
Reputation: 14712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellacatahoula View Post
IMO, it seems most of the "establishment" is more concerned about their profit than our health.
I started thinking this way over 10 yrs ago. Payments vs patients screams more and more.

The establishment is what we're told to "believe" in just about every segment of business.
 
Old Today, 02:04 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,693 posts, read 937,930 times
Reputation: 5628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew_MI View Post
Too large a cuff will give a lower reading, too small will give a higher reading..... BP's should be taken on a bare arm, with the artery marker lined up to the brachial artery, arm at level of heart .

The electronic BP machines tend to be too sensitive and often give high readings. There's actually 5 sounds the observer is supposed to listen for (we can usually only hear two of them -the 2nd & the 5th) but the machines don't differentiate between the first and second and thus often give a high reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korotkoff_sounds Sometimes there's a big difference in the 1st & 2nd sound and a good clinician will record three numbers-- for example-- 160/130/85 The experts have been debating the importance of the first two sounds for 150 yrs and still can't decide which is most important.


The BP readings will be the same regardless of your position if the cuff is level with the heart. "Liquids seek their own levels."


The ratio of cuff width to arm circumference is important: too narrow a cuff gives a high reading, but a wider cuff than necessary is accurate.


Anybody who thinks BPs should be reported more accurately than rounding to the nearest "5" is either kidding himself or doesn't know what they're doing. To get more accurate, you'd have to release the pressure in the cuff slowly enough to hear at least two heart beats at each level...Eg- to be accurate to 2mmHg, for a BP of 120/80- you'd pump the thing up to ~140, then bring the pressure down to hear 2 beats at 140, 2 at 138, 2 at 136, etc that's at least a minute and a half of listening instead of the usual 10 or 15 seconds. ...You're not going to start, stop or change meds based on anything more accurate than the nearest "10" anyway.
 
Old Today, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Illinois
121 posts, read 25,715 times
Reputation: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardener View Post
The "establishment" as you call the medical community, has insurance companies watching them like hawks. Insurance companies do not pay for medical treatments and procedures unless they are necessary. Doctors can't make up illnesses so they can profit from them by prescribing treatments that are not necessary, because insurance companies won't allow it. Not only that, but the vast majority of doctors are actually not quacks or thieves.

You can't and don't understand anything if you refuse to learn about it. It's like living in the dark ages and being certain that thunder and lightning mean the gods are angry at you, rather than learning how thunder and lightning are produced. Why not learn how things work and then understand that your conspiracy theories aren't correct?

The tinfoil theorists are paranoid, and there is actual treatment for that actual impairment, and insurance would pay for it.


To stay on topic, BP readings are variable, and machines are variable. To be diagnosed with hypertension (which is not just an occasional high reading), multiple readings are taken at multiple visits. If the readings are persistently elevated, then hypertension is diagnosed, and a remedy offered.
Let me clarify. When I speak of "the establishment" i did not intend to disrespect the hard working forces of the medical profession. My distrust of "the establishment" is focused towards corporate entities who have turned a human connection between caregiver and patient into an intense focus into profitability. Health care systems, insurance companies, pharmaceutical corporations, etc. They all have lobbyists doing their behind the scene presentations with politicians for more money! I miss the days that what my doctor did or did not do was based on what he thought was best for me. Not what is more profitable for the corporation.
 
Old Today, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Williamsburg, VA
3,013 posts, read 1,349,909 times
Reputation: 8055
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
I'm on meds and will stay there. I don't care to check and check machines as I've been that route years ago when I took it at home and journaled it all and finally said "scre** it" and now feel resigned to the meds. And once they have us on lifetime meds, that's it for the most part.

??? You'd rather stress out worrying that you might be getting bad readings from the hospital's machine, rather than take the simple step of bringing your own machine when you have a check up? It's not like you have to use it at other times, it's simply an alternative to the hospital's machines, since you feel the hospital machines aren't giving accurate readings. To each his own, but that seems like such a simple solution to your problem. It's your life, though, and I'm sure you have your reasons.
 
Old Today, 03:10 PM
 
8,009 posts, read 11,706,106 times
Reputation: 17145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn hunter View Post
I don't understand why you would call this tinfoil hat, etc. The same thing has happened to me. Not sure about the point of the calibration being set higher, but I hate those machines and the pain and I am sure it causes a rise in blood pressure for those who feel the same way about those awful machines!
The tinfoil hat part is the OP's friend reporting that her nurse told her that the machines were calibrated 20 points higher. The implication is that it is done so to put patients on BP medicine, which is total nonsense.

Not only is the allegation that the machines are calibrated 20 points higher utter and complete nonsense, I don't for one second believe that the nurse ever said and such thing to the OP's friend.

And speaking of the OP, here's a note for her: Jammin, you are not supposed to use the rep function to make comments to me about my posts. (And this is not the first time you have done so.) If you have something to say to me, say it here, just as I do. I do not wish to communicate with you privately. If you don't like my posts, put me on ignore.
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