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Old 11-28-2019, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Because antibiotics are nasty. They make your belches and urine smell like rotten eggs. They kill the "good" bacteria in your intestines and mess with your digestion.

"Bad" bacteria are worse!
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
"Bad" bacteria are worse!

Never said they weren't. Someone asked why people quit taking antibiotics early once they feel better and I gave some of the reasons.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Bacteria don't develop genes but the genes that confer resistance will be more widely propogated.


Do the antibiotics get on your skin?


Bottom line, going back to what Mircea said, is that you can preach all day about "good ideas" and antibiotic regimens but you are just deluding yourself in thinking we can do anything to prevent resistance in bacteria.



The best way to slow it down is "take no survivors". Stop trying to kill the bacteria slowly with a minimal dose over 2 weeks which is virtually a conditioning process that ensures tougher bacteria. Double the dose and wipe it out in 7 days.
Antibiotics get into the skin. How do you think they treat skin infections?

Bacteria do indeed "develop genes". That is what a mutation is. Those genes can then be transferred to other bacteria (even different species) via transfer of DNA.

https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/cont...me/resistance/

Antibiotic dose and duration of treatment is determined by studies designed to wipe out the infections the antibiotic treats. It is not a simple matter of doubling the dose and halving the duration of treatment.

We still should not be exposing the bacteria in and on our bodies to unnecessary antibiotics. We cannot totally prevent bacterial resistance to antibiotics but we can slow it down, hopefully long enough for the researchers to come up with other ways to defeat bacteria.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:53 PM
 
6,979 posts, read 3,818,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Antibiotics get into the skin. How do you think they treat skin infections?

Bacteria do indeed "develop genes". That is what a mutation is. Those genes can then be transferred to other bacteria (even different species) via transfer of DNA.

https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/cont...me/resistance/

Antibiotic dose and duration of treatment is determined by studies designed to wipe out the infections the antibiotic treats. It is not a simple matter of doubling the dose and halving the duration of treatment.

We still should not be exposing the bacteria in and on our bodies to unnecessary antibiotics. We cannot totally prevent bacterial resistance to antibiotics but we can slow it down, hopefully long enough for the researchers to come up with other ways to defeat bacteria.
Both myself and my daughter had chronic strep as children. Daughter was given throat cultures, so yes it was strep. She had it multiple times in a year. At first she was given a 10 day antibiotic regime. Then it went to a 5 day regime. Stronger/different medication? Finally, when she was around 12 (in the 90's) her Pediatrician said that he was going to prescribe something different, and said if this did not "work" there was nothing more he could do for her. ONE Pill for ONE DAY. That was it. Have no idea what that was. Do YOU?

The Pharmacy did not stock it and had to order it special. With insurance this one pill cost $50 back then! This worked for her and she never caught strep again in her childhood.

I also had chronic strep as a child, same as my daughter. I was given that pink liquid bubble gum tasting antibiotic (maybe Penicillin?), which I been taking before I got Scarlet Fever at 6 years old. 105 fever with that. No, not hospitalized. My fever broke on it's own. Soaked the bedding with the sweats. After I had Scarlet Fever, I never caught strep again. LUCK?
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
9,853 posts, read 8,751,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Years ago there was no understanding that bacteria are smarter than we are and can rapidly adapt to antibiotics,


But, we do know that today. Yet mothers still beg for antibiotics for their kids who don't need them and Drs still prescribe hem


We did know, and always told patients, to completely finish the antibiotic fill, even when feeling better. Yet they still stop treatment all the time


We are rapidly running out of antibiotics and the bacteria are winning the race
When I was in my twenties, I got strep five times one summer.

The last time the antibiotics did not work and the strep moved into my heart.

Thank God and IV full of heavy duty antibiotics cleared it up but it involved a week stay in the hospital.

I try my best not to take them and always take them all.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:28 PM
 
10,694 posts, read 4,964,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
We still should not be exposing the bacteria in and on our bodies to unnecessary antibiotics. We cannot totally prevent bacterial resistance to antibiotics but we can slow it down, hopefully long enough for the researchers to come up with other ways to defeat bacteria.

A look at this Resistance Map based on DDD/1000 is rather interesting.


There seems little or no correlation between usage and resistance. It appears the biggest influence on resistance levels is climate. The colder the climate, the lower the resistance. The highest resistance levels are in countries like India, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Mexico, and Vietnam. The countries with lowest resistance are countries like Canada, Iceland, Finland, and Sweden.



There's no evidence to suggest reducing usage will reduce resistance. Some countries like Mexico have low usage rates and high resistance rates. Mexico has double the resistance levels but only 25% of usage levels of the U.S. Some countries like Romania have high usage rates and low resistance levels.


And bacterial resistance is not the same in all species. Across the board, the highest resistance levels are in the penicillins which have been around 50 plus years. Finally you acknowledge that bacterial resistance is inevitable. Your hope is that we can slow it down in the hopes that human technology can outpace bacterial biology. In that case, the future is bleak and antibiotic development has slowed to a crawl. Antibiotic development was at it's highest in the 60's-80's.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,177 posts, read 29,253,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Both myself and my daughter had chronic strep as children. Daughter was given throat cultures, so yes it was strep. She had it multiple times in a year. At first she was given a 10 day antibiotic regime. Then it went to a 5 day regime. Stronger/different medication? Finally, when she was around 12 (in the 90's) her Pediatrician said that he was going to prescribe something different, and said if this did not "work" there was nothing more he could do for her. ONE Pill for ONE DAY. That was it. Have no idea what that was. Do YOU?

The Pharmacy did not stock it and had to order it special. With insurance this one pill cost $50 back then! This worked for her and she never caught strep again in her childhood.

I also had chronic strep as a child, same as my daughter. I was given that pink liquid bubble gum tasting antibiotic (maybe Penicillin?), which I been taking before I got Scarlet Fever at 6 years old. 105 fever with that. No, not hospitalized. My fever broke on it's own. Soaked the bedding with the sweats. After I had Scarlet Fever, I never caught strep again. LUCK?
The pink bubblegum flavored stuff is amoxicillin.

I have no idea what the $50 pill was.

It is possible to be a carrier of strep and have no symptoms from it. Carriers who get a viral sore throat will still test positive for strep even though the strep is not the cause of the symptoms.

https://www.cdc.gov/groupastrep/dise...ep-throat.html

"Someone who tests positive for strep throat but has no symptoms (called a “carrier”) usually does not need antibiotics. They are less likely to spread the bacteria to others and very unlikely to get complications. If a carrier gets a sore throat illness caused by a virus, the rapid strep test can be positive. In these cases it can be hard to know what is causing the sore throat. If someone keeps getting a sore throat after taking the right antibiotics, they may be a strep carrier and have a viral throat infection."

Then there is this:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...-immune-system
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Old 11-28-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
23,907 posts, read 15,430,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I learned about antibiotic resistance in microbiology class in 1968. It was there we learned about antibiotic overuse as well. So I agree with the bold. The rest of your post?

Well, I can't support use of chiropractic, especially in kids. Maybe your "homeopathic chiropractor" didn't tell you this, but kids tend to outgrow ear infections around two years of age.

I don't think doctors pass out antibiotics like candy, and that is verified by a 45 year nursing career, including the last 11 in a pediatrics office where I saw things first hand.

Antibiotic hand sanitizers and the like are controversial; clean hands are not.
I have not encountered a doc who passed out antibiotics like candy. My present doc is quite conservative.

And I have been under the impression that sulfa is not an antibiotic. I am allergic to sulfa.
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
88,188 posts, read 104,408,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I have not encountered a doc who passed out antibiotics like candy. My present doc is quite conservative.

And I have been under the impression that sulfa is not an antibiotic. I am allergic to sulfa.
Sulfa drugs are a different class of anti-infectives.
https://www.drugs.com/drug-class/sulfonamides.html
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
24,177 posts, read 29,253,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
A look at this Resistance Map based on DDD/1000 is rather interesting.


There seems little or no correlation between usage and resistance. It appears the biggest influence on resistance levels is climate. The colder the climate, the lower the resistance. The highest resistance levels are in countries like India, Zambia, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Mexico, and Vietnam. The countries with lowest resistance are countries like Canada, Iceland, Finland, and Sweden.



There's no evidence to suggest reducing usage will reduce resistance. Some countries like Mexico have low usage rates and high resistance rates. Mexico has double the resistance levels but only 25% of usage levels of the U.S. Some countries like Romania have high usage rates and low resistance levels.


And bacterial resistance is not the same in all species. Across the board, the highest resistance levels are in the penicillins which have been around 50 plus years. Finally you acknowledge that bacterial resistance is inevitable. Your hope is that we can slow it down in the hopes that human technology can outpace bacterial biology. In that case, the future is bleak and antibiotic development has slowed to a crawl. Antibiotic development was at it's highest in the 60's-80's.
I never denied that bacterial resistance was inevitable. My initial comment concerned your statement that using antibiotics for viral infections was a waste of money but has no impact on bacterial resistance. That is not true. Every exposure to every antibiotic applies pressure to bacteria to evolve resistance.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6597870/

Mexico:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0209865

"Hospital antibiotic restriction is an effective measure to control antibiotic resistance and according to this, hospitals should eliminate or at least restrict antibiotics in which high resistance is observed and replace them with equivalent antibiotics with low resistance potential. ... Antibiotic resistance is a worldwide concern and information generated in this study will be used to define strategies to better control resistance, develop more antimicrobial stewardship programs in Mexico, support the national strategies to combat antimicrobial resistance and promote the prudent use of antibiotics."

Mexico passed a law in 2010 requiring a prescription to purchase antibiotics but it appears to be poorly enforced. Since they are essentially available over the counter I am dubious that usage there is "low".

Sweden, on the other hand, does have low usage and lower resistance rates. It also bans antibiotics as growth agents in livestock.

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes.../16-184374/en/

India:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...KYVmX3DDL.html

"Under Schedule H1 of Drugs and Cosmetics Act (DCA), pharmacists have to maintain a record of all habit-forming medicine and potent third- and fourth-line antibiotics for at least three years.


'We all know it happens, it is a dangerous trend. The biggest problem of course is the misuse of antibiotics. People either take it for a long period, take it for ailments that do not require antibiotics, and take it on and off resulting in resistance. This is the reason managing infections is becoming such a challenge in tertiary care hospitals,' said Dr Jugal Kishore, head of the department of community medicine at Safdarjung hospital."
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