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Old 11-26-2023, 03:44 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 1,065,777 times
Reputation: 1864

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Interview with Dr. Vaughn and Kory on Long Covid treatments


Start in at 26:32 in this video, 27:56 for Dr. Kory
https://rumble.com/v3hrjvo-the-covid...-pierre-k.html



Paper discussing Dr Vaughn's triple anticoagulant therapy
https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/f...le-therapy.pdf



Similiar to Dr. McCullough's Nattokinase, Bromelain, Curcumin treatment
https://twitter.com/search?q=curcumi...ed_query&f=top



Dr. Kory appears to have the most comprehensive treatment, much of it posted here
https://covid19criticalcare.com/prot...ine-treatment/


Any treatment would benefit from a low inflammation diet - Limit Sugar, bread, pasta, and fried foods.
Limit salt and caffeine to improve blood pressure. Grounding also improves blood flow
https://www.google.com/search?sca_es...&bih=979&dpr=1
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Old 11-26-2023, 08:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,145 posts, read 826,646 times
Reputation: 3497
I have concerns starting with but certainly not ending with this,

"The National Institutes of Health says the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine is ineffective against COVID and can cause cardiac events. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warn against using ivermectin as a treatment for COVID and said clinical trials have shown the drug to be ineffective.

The letter to Ivey itself cites an article posted to the America’s Frontline Doctors website, but the link to the article doesn’t work, and the article itself, which made a wildly inaccurate claim about deaths linked to the Pfizer vaccine, has been debunked.

The Concerned Doctors website also has a “Vaccine Resources” page that claims COVID vaccines “kill more people than they save for all age groups.” The website also has a donate tab that links back to a donation page for the Eagle Forum of Alabama, which hosted a “COVID Truths” forum in Birmingham on Sept. 19 where Dr. Jordan Vaughn and two other doctors who signed on to the letter also spoke.

The Concerned Doctors website has several photos of Vaughn, CEO of MedHelp Clinics, and a link back to Medhelp. APR’s attempt Thursday to reach someone with Concerned Doctors were unsuccessful."

https://www.alreporter.com/2021/10/0...r-to-kay-ivey/

I have concerns with somebody like this doctor introducing technology that is not fully vetted in assessing blood clots. The photos cited and shown in the video is not in clinical practice and reminds me of "live blood analysis".

I would rather see a double bind clinical trial rather than I will give you this drug and you should feel much better after and then when given the drug they feel much better after going to a doctor that is being promoted as Mayo clinic couldn't do anything for me but this doctor did type of ads.

Blood clots with COVID is something that was very well known early on with the disease and D-Dimer tests are elevated and yes many patients when hospitalized are put on anticoagulants.

I have trouble with long COVID being initiated with spike proteins normally seen with active infection inducing blood clots to the same degree. Patients were tested according to the testimonials were normal. I have problems with that. I have concerns that they are equating vaccines because of the the single spike protein as being equivalent to the whole virus immune response disease expression. They aren't equivalent severity nor in incidence.

I have problems with proposing treatments that have not been studied independently and yet are being promoted. Anticoagulants do carry risk. Their use without objective testing demonstrating a coagulopathy is not wise.

I have problems with an internist and not a hematologist that is knowledgable about hemostasis and how to measure it is promoting this theory.

All being said though, if it can be proven with double blind studies that the treatment is effective by independent researchers then I will have no trouble with it.
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Old 11-26-2023, 10:06 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 1,065,777 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medical Lab Guy View Post
All being said though, if it can be proven with double blind studies that the treatment is effective by independent researchers then I will have no trouble with it.
You should check out the people experiencing Long Covid, they are in dire straits
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23long...d_query&f=live
https://twitter.com/SawyerBlatz/stat...80934526173586

"I wake up just to suffer. What's the point?
#LongCovid"\



I wonder if you were suffering the same if you wouldn't seek out Doctors who are willing to treat it, despite their opposing beliefs on vaccines. I know I would be giving some treatments a try, off label prescriptions are perfectly legal and done all the time

They can certainly be sued by their clients if there is malpractice, but Sharyl Attkisson sought out Doctors who have shown clinical success, she interviews several of them in the video I posted

Start in at 1:39 for patient testimonies
https://rumble.com/v3hrjvo-the-covid...-pierre-k.html
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Old 11-27-2023, 12:44 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,145 posts, read 826,646 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom623 View Post
You should check out the people experiencing Long Covid, they are in dire straits
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23long...d_query&f=live
https://twitter.com/SawyerBlatz/stat...80934526173586

"I wake up just to suffer. What's the point?
#LongCovid"\



I wonder if you were suffering the same if you wouldn't seek out Doctors who are willing to treat it, despite their opposing beliefs on vaccines. I know I would be giving some treatments a try, off label prescriptions are perfectly legal and done all the time

They can certainly be sued by their clients if there is malpractice, but Sharyl Attkisson sought out Doctors who have shown clinical success, she interviews several of them in the video I posted

Start in at 1:39 for patient testimonies
https://rumble.com/v3hrjvo-the-covid...-pierre-k.html
The way the medical community communicates is through published clinical trials. It isn't via YouTube. It doesn't bother me that he runs a private company. His marketing bothers me.

Intuitively what he does doesn't make sense. Using multiple anticoagulants, three I believe, isn't practical for long term ie long COVID. The pictures he showed implied a large mass of fibrin while the others look more like platelet clumps. Those are two different coagulation mechanisms via venous coagulation factors and arterial platelet clumping. Any clumping of platelets resulting in fibrin deposition in the blood vessels compromising the blood flow would generate red cell damage resulting in a microangiopathic hemolytic anemia with classical elevated markers of hemolysis and coagulation consumption.

The use of anticoagulants does not treat the inciting pathology that he says is attributable to the spike protein. The anticoagulants don't get rid of the procloagulant prothrombotic state. The second one stops the anticoagulants the coagulation cascade would continue unabated.

From the citation mentioned on anticogulant therapy

"Previously we have argued that in the acute phase a single drug approach would be insucient to address acute COVID-19 coagulopathy 16. We suggested that the treatment of acute COVID-19 should be
based on the results of point-of-care tests such as the TEG® as well as detailed analysis of microclot presence and platelet activation, to follow the physiological status of the hematological and coagulation system in real-time. It is our view that a multi-pronged approach guided by TEG® and platelet mapping is required to normalize clotting physiology in severe acute COVID-19 disease 16."

I have performed TEG and was a part of clinical research testing TEG on all trauma patients. After the research was done nobody ordered TEGS any more. In other words it didn't catch on and didn't provide much use. The clinical use is still with liver transplants and transfusion service blood utilization. TEG determines how long to obtain a blood clot and the strength of the blood clot. The shorter amount of time it takes and the stronger the clot is is what determines a hypercoagulable state. It also detects clot dissolution. If someone is assuming that there is a strong clot present then one must assume that there are lots of remnants of clot dissolution that would be present as fibrin strands AKA D-Dimers.

I have performed platelet mapping as a part of TEG. Unfortunately, TEG manufacturers have a problem with quality control materials required by the US for compliance of quality control. There are controls for TEG but they did not manufacturers controls for the platelet mapping. Without the controls we don't know if the test is functioning correctly or not.

Platelet aggregation is clinically available but not practical on an emergency basis. It is solely for diagnostic purposed and the version of their microclot detection is their research and not a clinical test.

I have a problem when they say that the Mayo Clinic found no abnormalities and all of a sudden he is putting patients on anticoagulants. I don't find it plausible that someone with so many microclots in the blood to diminish oxygen delivery and resulting in the diverse symptoms reported would show no laboratory evidence of it except for his testing. The citation or comment shown above in the use of TEG mentions acute COVID patients and they are trying to implicate long COVID with the same pathophysiology.

The chronic activation of coagulation factors would result in consumption of those coagulation factors giving prolonged coagulation times. The platelet activation implied via clumps would consum the platelets and result in low platelet counts. That is termed a consumption coagulopathy. Yes, with disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC), anticoagulants are given but there is distinct laboratory evidence of activation of coagulation factors via depletion.

Edit

I forgot to add that a significant segment of the population are resistant to aspirin and to Clopidogrel. Assays to detect resistance are common based on genetics. Some of those people probably are and thus suspect for such a positive response.

Last edited by Medical Lab Guy; 11-27-2023 at 12:58 AM..
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Old 11-27-2023, 01:58 AM
 
1,949 posts, read 1,065,777 times
Reputation: 1864
I can't speak to whether the triple therapy linked make sense, personally I would be using blood cleanser like Neprinol or Serracor. Same concept though, dissolve the fibrin
https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/f...le-therapy.pdf

What do you make of the 1100 patients treated by Vaughn and the those who recovered using it?


There are some university clinics that might be more to your liking
Stanford, John Hopkins, and UCSF have started Long Covid clinic, some of their treatments are posted, very similar to what Kory uses
https://twitter.com/OpenMedF/status/1422289375380090886
https://twitter.com/search?q=Stanfor...rc=typed_query

But official treatment is likely years away
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Old 11-27-2023, 02:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,145 posts, read 826,646 times
Reputation: 3497
As far as their new devised test to detect activated platelet microclot in acute COVID for assessing severity of coagulopathy. I found the complete proposed test here.

"3. Fluorescence Microscopy Can Be Used to Provide a Marker of Microclot Formation and Platelet Hyperactivation
Currently there is no effective pathology laboratory diagnosis of acute COVID-19, based on the presence of microclots or level of platelet hyperactivation. However, we developed a fluorescence microscopy-based grading system for both microclot presence as well as platelet hyperactivation. Although specialized fluorescence microscopy is needed, both the methods are relatively easy and greatly cost-effective if a fluorescence microscope is available for the analysis.

3.1. Methods Used to Analyse Microclots in Platelet Poor Plasma

To view anomalous clotting of fibrin(ogen) and plasma proteins, in platelet poor plasma (PPP), blood is drawn in citrate tubes, and PPP is collected after a centrifugation step of 15 min at 3000 RPM. This method was previously discussed in various of our papers [21,22,23,57]. To view microclots, thioflavin T (ThT) (exposure concentration: 5 μM) (Sigma-Aldrich, St. Louis, MO, USA) is added to PPP and incubated for 30 min. After placing a 3 µL drop of the sample on a microscope slide, the sample is viewed with a fluorescence microscope. In our case, we used the Zeiss Axio Observer 7 fluorescence microscope with a Plan-Apochromat 63×/1.4 Oil DIC M27 objective (Carl Zeiss Microscopy, Munich, Germany) using the excitation wavelength of 450 nm to 488 nm and emission from 499 nm to 529 nm.

3.2. Methods Used to Prepare Platelets

The analysis of platelet activation might be extremely difficult, as platelets are easily activated. Flow cytometry and platelet aggregation tests are therefore extremely tedious and difficult procedures, even for pathology laboratories."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8621180/

No mention of long COVID is made. It is also a subjective test that I don't trust in the eyes of somebody already biased. The test proposed is just not going to happen.

Today's laser instruments performing platelet counts can flag platelet clumps. It is mandatory to check for platelet clumps ie microclots with all platelet counts below 100K. Such platelet flagging is rare with COVID.

Platelet activation has also been implied with an increased MPV mean platelet volume. The MPV increases as platelets become activated. Also the PDW will also be increased with a variance generated between activated larger platelets and the smaller non-activated platelets. The platelet parameters are technically assayed via flow cytometry which is how those parameters are obtained.

Platelet parameters have been used for platelet activation in the early detection of relapses in inflammatory bowel disease and other conditions.
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Old 11-27-2023, 02:19 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California
1,145 posts, read 826,646 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom623 View Post
I can't speak to whether the triple therapy linked make sense, personally I would be using blood cleanser like Neprinol or Serracor. Same concept though, dissolve the fibrin
https://medhelpclinics.com/uploads/f...le-therapy.pdf

What do you make of the 1100 patients treated by Vaughn and the those who recovered using it?


There are some university clinics that might be more to your liking
Stanford, John Hopkins, and UCSF have started Long Covid clinic, some of their treatments are posted, very similar to what Kory uses
https://twitter.com/OpenMedF/status/1422289375380090886
https://twitter.com/search?q=Stanfor...rc=typed_query

But official treatment is likely years away
I would like to see more research done. I am happy that they are trying to get things going. The most important thing they can do is to define the diagnostic criteria in order to study it. Without that then everything will be confounded and correlations almost impossible to decipher.

The reason why one size fits all isn't readily seen is because we are dealing with different expressions and manifestations that have differing pathophysiologies. Chronic fatigue has been attributed to many different things including EBV reactivation in long COVID patients.
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Old 11-28-2023, 07:24 PM
 
Location: clown world
501 posts, read 271,309 times
Reputation: 755
covid outcomes depend on gut health. researchers go so far as to state that they can PREDICT covid outcomes solely on the patient's gut microbiome.

imo one should include gut health plan if trying to beat the bioweapons, make sure to get plenty of the bifid family of bacteria. the bioweapons wreck/target those super important bacteria


bad covid outcome/long covid = bad gut
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Old 11-29-2023, 08:24 AM
 
5,567 posts, read 4,108,784 times
Reputation: 11337
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheka View Post

imo one should include gut health plan if trying to beat the bioweapons,

Do you believe that nonsensical hyperbole strengthens your argument? Even IF SARS CoV-2 leaked from lab, there is no evidence supporting a belief that it is or was ever intended to be a bioweapon.
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Old 11-29-2023, 11:01 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 1,065,777 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheka View Post
covid outcomes depend on gut health. researchers go so far as to state that they can PREDICT covid outcomes solely on the patient's gut microbiome.

imo one should include gut health plan if trying to beat the bioweapons, make sure to get plenty of the bifid family of bacteria. the bioweapons wreck/target those super important bacteria


bad covid outcome/long covid = bad gut
Several nutrients have been associated with bad outcomes - Low D(especially winter months), C, Selenium, zinc, glutathione(NAC to restore)




Omega3s + spectrum E will also thin the blood some and help the heart
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