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Old 10-11-2009, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1,195 posts, read 2,121,645 times
Reputation: 1831

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I have multiple autoimmune deficiencies (like RA & several others). I am not moderate doses of chemo to suppress my immune system. All the Associations associated w/ my illnesses say DO NOT EVER get the live vaccine - potentially deadly in my case. So the nasal is OUT for me.

That all being said, I will not get the seasonal or H1N1 flue shots & am encouraging my son and ex-daughter in law to NOT have my grandson vaccinated either.

Benefits? Risks? We all have to weigh them out & decide for ourselves. I refuse!
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:45 AM
 
8,797 posts, read 5,336,607 times
Reputation: 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinetreelover View Post
Definitely no worries about passing along the virus to someone else. Flumist has been formulated so that it can't replicate in your nose and won't give you the flu. Also, it can not be passed on to others. I have spoken with an infectious disease doctor who works at St. Jude's hospital for children with cancer - they give it to their employees there because it is more effective and can't be passed to their high-risk patients.

I would definitely recommend Flumist!
Rather than make statements that contradict the manufacturers own documentation, try reading it first, and provide accurate information. That's the trouble I see with Flu vaccines in general ... people are just restating what somebody else has told them .. or what they heard from a doctor, etc.

First, the documentation specifies a rather large list of individuals who shouldn't take FluMist, covering children under 2; pregnant women, those with asthma or breathing difficulties, those over 49, people with immune system disorders, and several other specified categories. It also recommends that those that do take FluMist should avoid close contact with those who have weak immune systems for a period of at least 21 days. Now if you can't spread the virus to others .. why would such a specific warning be issued in the first place? The fact is, it wouldn't be. This vaccine is an attenuated (weakened) virus, but still live, and can still be passed along to others.

Now, let me inject a little common sense here (pun intended). The vaccine product information lists the most common side effects as: Fever; coughing; sneezing; headache; runny nose ... all of which are just coincidentally the same symptoms as the flu ... but it's not really the flu ... they are just side effects from the vaccine? If you believe this, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you.

Basic reading comprehension skills are all that is needed here. Read the documentation from the vaccine maker, and see for yourself the contradictions between that and the propaganda being commonly circulated. You'll have to negotiate the double talk and the medical E's a bit ... such as when it says "recipients of the FluMist should avoid close contact with members of the household who have weakened immune systems" and be able to extrapolate that out to include close contact with anyone ... regardless if they're household members or not (this is just a little play on words to insinuate that you couldn't infect someone who is not in your household).

With regard to medical staff at a St Jude's cancer center taking this .. I'm appalled. The manufacturer clearly states that those taking FluMist should avoid close contact with those that have weakened immune systems for at least 21 days ... couple that with children (or anyone) undergoing cancer treatments who have the weakest immune systems imaginable .. (chemotherapy destroys the immune system, which is why such patients tend to die from secondary infections, often pneumonia), this is a recipe for disaster.

Of course, if you have staff running around shedding flu virus from FluMist, well, nobody will really know if these kids get sick and die from it. It will just automatically be accepted as caused by the cancer .. and you'd never be able to prove otherwise.

Moderator cut: hostile language

This is not to say that the dead virus injection is a better choice, as there are many unbiased professional opinions that the shot is far more dangerous than the flu itself, and particularly true with regard to h1n1, which is a very mild strain. It's estimated that over half of those infected with h1n1 may never even know they've had it.

The bottom line here is that even the makers of the various flu vaccines admit that you still may not be protected even if you take that vaccine. They also admit that they don't even understand how the vaccine works! Yes, that's right, you read that correctly ... they don't know how it protects you ... they just know that it does .. except when it doesn't.

This comes directly from the FluMist product insert:

"Immune mechanisms conferring protection against influenza following receipt of FluMist vaccine are not fully understood. Likewise, naturally acquired immunity to wild-type influenza has not been completely elucidated. Serum antibodies, mucosal antibodies and influenza-specific T cells may play a role in prevention and recovery from infuenza"

Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo coming from a snake oil salesman to me. "well, we really don't know how it performs such miracles .. we just know it does ... trust me ... it's good for you and you need it"

I'll tell you what they do know ... they know for a fact that the more people they can scare into taking these vaccines, the more money they stand to make.

All other concerns ... effectiveness ... safety ... well, those are minor details.

Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 10-11-2009 at 01:15 PM..
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Old 10-11-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,485,786 times
Reputation: 7265
I will get my flu shot next week on my regular doctor’s visit, and I will get the H1N1 when they let those over 50 get them. I weigh the negative and see many more from not taking the shot than taking it. In the Raleigh area they had 3000 of the nasal vaccines and they were used up the first day. News said they would have enough to go around by December. With luck that will include the over 50 group too.
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1,195 posts, read 2,121,645 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Rather than make statements that contradict the manufacturers own documentation, try reading it first, and provide accurate information. That's the trouble I see with Flu vaccines in general ... people are just restating what somebody else has told them .. or what they heard from a doctor, etc.

First, the documentation specifies a rather large list of individuals who shouldn't take FluMist, covering children under 2; pregnant women, those with asthma or breathing difficulties, those over 49, people with immune system disorders, and several other specified categories. It also recommends that those that do take FluMist should avoid close contact with those who have weak immune systems for a period of at least 21 days. Now if you can't spread the virus to others .. why would such a specific warning be issued in the first place? The fact is, it wouldn't be. This vaccine is an attenuated (weakened) virus, but still live, and can still be passed along to others.

Now, let me inject a little common sense here (pun intended). The vaccine product information lists the most common side effects as: Fever; coughing; sneezing; headache; runny nose ... all of which are just coincidentally the same symptoms as the flu ... but it's not really the flu ... they are just side effects from the vaccine? If you believe this, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell you.

Basic reading comprehension skills are all that is needed here. Read the documentation from the vaccine maker, and see for yourself the contradictions between that and the propaganda being commonly circulated. You'll have to negotiate the double talk and the medical E's a bit ... such as when it says "recipients of the FluMist should avoid close contact with members of the household who have weakened immune systems" and be able to extrapolate that out to include close contact with anyone ... regardless if they're household members or not (this is just a little play on words to insinuate that you couldn't infect someone who is not in your household).

With regard to medical staff at a St Jude's cancer center taking this .. I'm appalled. The manufacturer clearly states that those taking FluMist should avoid close contact with those that have weakened immune systems for at least 21 days ... couple that with children (or anyone) undergoing cancer treatments who have the weakest immune systems imaginable .. (chemotherapy destroys the immune system, which is why such patients tend to die from secondary infections, often pneumonia), this is a recipe for disaster.

Of course, if you have staff running around shedding flu virus from FluMist, well, nobody will really know if these kids get sick and die from it. It will just automatically be accepted as caused by the cancer .. and you'd never be able to prove otherwise.

Moderator cut: hostile langauage
This is not to say that the dead virus injection is a better choice, as there are many unbiased professional opinions that the shot is far more dangerous than the flu itself, and particularly true with regard to h1n1, which is a very mild strain. It's estimated that over half of those infected with h1n1 may never even know they've had it.

The bottom line here is that even the makers of the various flu vaccines admit that you still may not be protected even if you take that vaccine. They also admit that they don't even understand how the vaccine works! Yes, that's right, you read that correctly ... they don't know how it protects you ... they just know that it does .. except when it doesn't.

This comes directly from the FluMist product insert:

"Immune mechanisms conferring protection against influenza following receipt of FluMist vaccine are not fully understood. Likewise, naturally acquired immunity to wild-type influenza has not been completely elucidated. Serum antibodies, mucosal antibodies and influenza-specific T cells may play a role in prevention and recovery from infuenza"

Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo coming from a snake oil salesman to me. "well, we really don't know how it performs such miracles .. we just know it does ... trust me ... it's good for you and you need it"

I'll tell you what they do know ... they know for a fact that the more people they can scare into taking these vaccines, the more money they stand to make.

All other concerns ... effectiveness ... safety ... well, those are minor details.

PLEASE: If you can getting the live vaccine, PLEASE keep yourself coveredin public, get some hand sterilizer to carry with you, & fully cover any cough / sneeze / anything with the inside of your upper arm NOT YOUR HAND (and certainly not just by turning the direction away from those in the room)!

My body does not react well to many medications & years ago when flu vaccines started (or at least I started noticing them in the late 80's or early 90's) I had a bad reaction - that was before becoming ill like I am now.

Your couch, sneeze, whatever can wipe me out - me and many others with compromised immune systems. I appear to be a fully healthy adult - so you cannot gauge your carefulness on appearances either.

Here's to a happy & healthy & flu free FLU SEASON...

Thinky Think.R

Last edited by SouthernBelleInUtah; 10-11-2009 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 10-11-2009, 01:51 PM
 
3,440 posts, read 7,046,744 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.reciprocity View Post
Here's to a happy & healthy & flu free FLU SEASON

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Old 10-11-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1,195 posts, read 2,121,645 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.reciprocity View Post
PLEASE: If you can getting the live vaccine, PLEASE keep yourself coveredin public, get some hand sterilizer to carry with you, & fully cover any cough / sneeze / anything with the inside of your upper arm NOT YOUR HAND (and certainly not just by turning the direction away from those in the room)!

My body does not react well to many medications & years ago when flu vaccines started (or at least I started noticing them in the late 80's or early 90's) I had a bad reaction - that was before becoming ill like I am now.

Your couch, sneeze, whatever can wipe me out - me and many others with compromised immune systems. I appear to be a fully healthy adult - so you cannot gauge your carefulness on appearances either.

Here's to a happy & healthy & flu free FLU SEASON...

Thinky Think.R
Did I mention that I have a brain injury that apparently has begun to seriously impair my spelling & grammar? OMG - sorry for all the typos - that was ridiculous... (I was serious about the brain injury)

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Old 10-11-2009, 10:36 PM
 
3,803 posts, read 4,803,068 times
Reputation: 3462
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Arp View Post
Here is what the CDC says: CDC - Influenza (Flu) | Q & A: The Nasal-Spray Flu Vaccine (Live Attenuated Influenza Vaccine [LAIV])

I personally have never heard of it until now, but when I read "flu mist" I just imagined the doctors put a person with the flu in front of you and they sneeze in your face.
then most of us that work with the public have already had our flu mist
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:04 AM
 
8,797 posts, read 5,336,607 times
Reputation: 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.reciprocity View Post
Did I mention that I have a brain injury that apparently has begun to seriously impair my spelling & grammar? OMG - sorry for all the typos - that was ridiculous... (I was serious about the brain injury)

The good news is that the portion of your brain that governs common sense seems to be functioning quite well!
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:51 AM
 
Location: 3814′45″N 12237′53″W
4,152 posts, read 9,578,000 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinetreelover View Post
Definitely no worries about passing along the virus to someone else. Flumist has been formulated so that it can't replicate in your nose and won't give you the flu. Also, it can not be passed on to others. I have spoken with an infectious disease doctor who works at St. Jude's hospital for children with cancer - they give it to their employees there because it is more effective and can't be passed to their high-risk patients.

I would definitely recommend Flumist!

That is so interesting since the news reports here SF Bay Area is that they are NOT giving FluMist to health care workers for fear of them shedding (albeit a weakened version) of the swine flu to patients.
Conversely, the are recommending the FluMist for smaller children (under age 7 I believe)
and then recommending that these children get a second dose 3-4 weeks after that?!?!

Seriously does ANYONE actually have a flippin' clue about this whole thing (other than the folks counting the cash at the pharmaceutical company?)
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:59 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 568,225 times
Reputation: 119
Ok Let me break this down for all of you. Flu shot...contains thimerosal a murcury preservative which is a proven neuro toxin While about 75% Effective its still putting poison into your body. Flu mist conatins MSG and a LIVE virus and is only effective at about the 45% rate. A live virus can make you sick. This swine flu is looking more and more man made...hummm! Thimerosal and autism links...hummm! The flu isn't any worse this year than any other yr as to record. Tamaflu works, usually after the first dose. People usually die from a secondary infection with the flu ( pne., chf, sepsis). So, wash your hands, keep hand sanatizer on your person. Do not touch your face or mouth. If you feel flu like symptoms go to our dr or er immediately and for christ sae stay out of grocery stores and malls during high traffic times and when unnecessasary. I do not now nor will I ever recommend any Vaccines of any kind. They are simply not safe and who knows what they really put in there. Ask your Dr to see the package inser if you don't believe me, I'm an ACNP. Be smart and do the research!
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