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Old 10-13-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 568,225 times
Reputation: 119

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I just googled it and thousands of links popped up. Google it your self and see. No just google but read read the studies, read the findings read the side effects noted from the ingredients list in vaccines. Its not rocket science! So, you believe everything the governmant tells you? Because I don't and thousands of other don't either. Its a personal choice just like i dont eat meat or fast food. Because I HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH AND TO ME THE RISK IS GREATER THAN THE FEAR!
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1,195 posts, read 2,121,912 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellalunatic View Post
hmmm, well, i have a very good friend who is a neurologist at UCLA who would be real interested in the details of that accusation.
The connection between migraines & mercury poisoning is something that I've heard before - actually brought up by my neurologist who specializes in migraine. He is the type to tell you all the hype - some he'll say "but I've never seen as evidence to this effect, blah blah blah" or details of his opinion otherwise. I merely recall him mentioning it as a theory by some - but w/ no proven connection.

I've heard plenty of friends & others make the connection between a wide variety of things & my various illnesses, if only I would repent, eat more fish, never eat animal products, eat rotten meat, eat raw meat, eat raw diet, have sex regularly, eat no carbs, eat no fast food, eat no processed or preservative filled anything, reduce this, increase that, think positive thoughts, resist the devil, (yes, I could go on)...

My Rheumatologist today swayed me on this a bit. I am considering the H1N1 vaccine - my remaining issue is mercury & being certain that I am choosing out of a fully informed intelligent place & not out of fear.

I must keep in mind that my RA is getting worse & now I'm being faced w/ stopping chemo (while in the meantime they increased it) & starting Biologics - which are a nightmare to anyone remotely informed in the alternative health community. Biologics will make the choice towards the vaccination far more logical than otherwise.

Life. I'd like to be one of those people who makes these decisions without them even being decisions... "Ignorance IS bliss"

Be well... Thinky
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
1,195 posts, read 2,121,912 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by trmihall01 View Post
We all have our theories, I have mine and there's alot of proof out there that backs it up. I have seen first hand when the flu vaccine causes seizures. I have also seen healty happy developmentally sound children develop autism after vaccines, my best friends daughter was one of those children. I have had three pts develop seizures after the flu vaccine!
With all do respect - you are not speaking of PROOF - you are speaking of ANECDOTAL "EVIDENCE". There IS a difference. I say this as someone who, more often than not, has an "other than" mainstream opinion of things.

If my father drank half a litre of brandy, crossed the street, & just barely missed being crushed by a semi - that does not prove that drinking loads of brandy before crossing a busy street will prevent being hit by large vehicles.

I'm being a bit far fetched for a reason. People give in to hysteria based upon claims like what you made. Now, you link me to medical records that show that, indeed, the connection was scientifically made between seizure & vaccine or autism & vaccine or whatever - then there's more to talk about.

Do I think there is most definitely a possible linkage between things like autism & vaccines? Yes. But your claims are nothing more than claims & your beliefs - they are not proof. Period.

To say otherwise is to intentionally mislead.

I'm not undecided as to what I'll do. In the end, if I wait too long - that becomes my decision.

I'm taking NO sides here - thought I formed my decision & am not rethinking.

thinky
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 568,225 times
Reputation: 119
Read the list of side effects on the vaccine. I treated a pt having seizures directly after recieving the vaccine in my ER last week...no history before this. Ever heard of Guillain-Barre Syndrome? What more proof do you need? Read the effcts of mercury on neurons. I am not saying that in your case the benefits may not out the risk due to your compromised immune system, but for normally healthy people it does. We are a nation who blindly follows and panics easy. No one will ever admit that vaccines and autism are linked because it would be the biggest class action law suit ever. I am simply asking people to ask questions, research and decide after that. Do not let fear force your hand. I find it refreashing that your Md admitted he also believes these things. It is becoming more and more prevailant in the medical community. Imagine if people finally found out the government is injecting poisons they knew was dangerous for them into their children and then imagine the colapse after that. I go through hell everytime I try to enroll myself and my daughter into school because I refuse to vaccinate, until I mention that it's against my religion. I am simply pleading with people to research instead of panicing!
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:00 PM
 
16,487 posts, read 20,332,656 times
Reputation: 16136
My 16 year old son had it last week and had no problems at all. I read that they recommend adults having the shots and not the mist.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:06 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,929,045 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencrayola View Post
My 16 year old son had it last week and had no problems at all. I read that they recommend adults having the shots and not the mist.
I read this to, something about the mist is not as effective in adults as the shot is. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the vaccine to be widely available.
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:46 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,756,665 times
Reputation: 1472
So, have there been any reports of complications from people getting the H1N1 vac or mist so far? Does anyone know if there has been any bad reactions or not? Trying to decide myself if I should get it or not for the kids. I usually opt out of shots but I have 3 children and admit the hype about it being more deadly to kids has got me a little ruffled.

My father who had religiously gotten the flu and pnem shots always ended up getting the flu every year anyway plus unfortunately he died from Alzheimer's last year and after some research I heard that receiving the vac for flu increases your risk of that.
That was a little spooky, I'm not usually one who buys into mumbo jumbo but until this year I wasn't one who would believe we could scare ourselves out of a public option for health care either.

So I am trying to be as realistic as I can here and do some research and forum searching opinions.
One thing that already concerns me is when I see the news pump the use of hand sanitizer as a prevention for the flu viruses. I mean, any idiot knows that anti bacterial is just what it says on the bottle, "anti bacterial" I mean, it's not an anti viral, and it doesn't prevent or kill the spread of viruses. It kills bacteria, but then we are being told to use it in large quantities anyway. Only one news show acknowledge this, Gupta on CNN I believe and his excuse was it didn't kill viruses but made it less hospitable to live there, but so would lotion, or any other rub on substance.
At the same time I do know everything we rub on our skin absorbs into our bodies, like they use a patch to distribute meds or birth control, so everything you rub on your body you would have to be willing to eat. lol I don't think I would eat a bottle of hand sanitizer every week. ha ha
So, so far I am finding this stuff out that really worries me about how we make everything a "product" to sell for our own good. Starting to just seem like good marketing to me, but I am still researching so we will see.
Any comments on the vac for H1N1 would be helpful on either side. Especially if you have had the shot, or any ill effects.
Thanks
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:00 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,152,577 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
So, have there been any reports of complications from people getting the H1N1 vac or mist so far? Does anyone know if there has been any bad reactions or not? Trying to decide myself if I should get it or not for the kids. I usually opt out of shots but I have 3 children and admit the hype about it being more deadly to kids has got me a little ruffled.

My father who had religiously gotten the flu and pnem shots always ended up getting the flu every year anyway plus unfortunately he died from Alzheimer's last year and after some research I heard that receiving the vac for flu increases your risk of that.
That was a little spooky, I'm not usually one who buys into mumbo jumbo but until this year I wasn't one who would believe we could scare ourselves out of a public option for health care either.

So I am trying to be as realistic as I can here and do some research and forum searching opinions.
One thing that already concerns me is when I see the news pump the use of hand sanitizer as a prevention for the flu viruses. I mean, any idiot knows that anti bacterial is just what it says on the bottle, "anti bacterial" I mean, it's not an anti viral, and it doesn't prevent or kill the spread of viruses. It kills bacteria, but then we are being told to use it in large quantities anyway. Only one news show acknowledge this, Gupta on CNN I believe and his excuse was it didn't kill viruses but made it less hospitable to live there, but so would lotion, or any other rub on substance.
At the same time I do know everything we rub on our skin absorbs into our bodies, like they use a patch to distribute meds or birth control, so everything you rub on your body you would have to be willing to eat. lol I don't think I would eat a bottle of hand sanitizer every week. ha ha
So, so far I am finding this stuff out that really worries me about how we make everything a "product" to sell for our own good. Starting to just seem like good marketing to me, but I am still researching so we will see.
Any comments on the vac for H1N1 would be helpful on either side. Especially if you have had the shot, or any ill effects.
Thanks
Twiggy,

There are no shots available in Maricopa County yet - ok, maybe a trickle but not for everyday folks yet. I've been following this on Twitter. CVS says they hope to have the shots by end of month.

What I can tell you is that I've had the flu shot every year for the past 25 and it's been a good idea. Haven't been really sick with the flu since I started doing this.

It's a personal decision as to whether you get your kids vaccinated. Many who have healthy children are not. Many are. Where my brother works they actually made an employee work from home as his two kids were sick with it.

People are taking this seriously. If I were you, I'd get them vaccinated. Oh, and I've heard of no bad reactions.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: somewhere
4,264 posts, read 7,929,045 times
Reputation: 3129
It will be months before we know of any bad reactions to these shots if there are any. I am very doubtful if they would even report it if there were.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:22 AM
 
8,797 posts, read 5,336,607 times
Reputation: 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by think.reciprocity View Post
With all do respect - you are not speaking of PROOF - you are speaking of ANECDOTAL "EVIDENCE". There IS a difference. I say this as someone who, more often than not, has an "other than" mainstream opinion of things.

If my father drank half a litre of brandy, crossed the street, & just barely missed being crushed by a semi - that does not prove that drinking loads of brandy before crossing a busy street will prevent being hit by large vehicles.

I'm being a bit far fetched for a reason. People give in to hysteria based upon claims like what you made. Now, you link me to medical records that show that, indeed, the connection was scientifically made between seizure & vaccine or autism & vaccine or whatever - then there's more to talk about.

Do I think there is most definitely a possible linkage between things like autism & vaccines? Yes. But your claims are nothing more than claims & your beliefs - they are not proof. Period.

To say otherwise is to intentionally mislead.

I'm not undecided as to what I'll do. In the end, if I wait too long - that becomes my decision.

I'm taking NO sides here - thought I formed my decision & am not rethinking.

thinky
You are correct in the very strict sense of the word proof, and it all boils down to semantics and the understanding of the language. I think what the poster really meant was that there is a lot of "evidence", rather than proof.

To use your analogy .. (and it's a good one relative to vaccines) that your father was able to safely cross the street after consuming a large amount of alcohol doesn't prove that such behavior is either safe or effective way to cross a street. Of course, had he been struck by that semi, he'd probably feel less pain than one that was completely sober

By comparison, the fact that many people can receive vaccines and apparently suffer no ill effects does not prove the safety of vaccines. And, the efficacy of say the flu vaccine is not proven simply because you didn't get the flu after taking the vaccine, since many people who don't get vaccinated for the flu don't get the flu either.

When it comes to scientific studies of all sorts, the lines get even more blurred. The art of "statistical analysis" is a complex game (I know because an ex of mine had a PhD closely associated with SA, and could take any side of an argument and show evidence in support of that side) and depending on the rules established for any particular analysis of data sets, one can manipulate the final results dramatically using overlays, exclusions, and variables, etc., and not violate the recognized legitimate processes of statistical analysis. I'm afraid that even the well established fact that the sun rises every day could be proven false with statistical analysis and using geographical portions of Alaska as a reference. Therefore, the question "does the sun rise every day" could be scientifically proven to be No ... absolutely not.

Some of the arguments for example in support of the safety of thimerosal cited the potential that aluminum (also contained in some vaccines) could be the constituent component causing heavy metal toxicity, and therefore any study that didn't screen or exclude the aluminum variable sufficiently weakened the argument for mercury being the component causing damage. These arguments can end with the conclusion that there is no proof that mercury toxicity caused any adverse events, and that more studies are needed. And then there is the argument of ethyl-mercury versus methyl-mercury, in that ethyl mercury (used in vaccines) clears the body faster than the more commonly studied environmental methyl mercury. The vaccine proponents cite that the ethyl mercury doesn't remain in the body long enough to cause damage, yet mercury has been shown in laboratory tests to cause severe damage to neurons on contact.

Anecdotal evidence (completely dismissed in the course of scientific analysis) is the common man's (or woman's) view of events. And there are weak and strong versions of this as well.

Let's take the case of studies showing that "unvaccinated" Amish children have virtually no autism issues (relatively speaking). Yet there is a growing acceptance in many Amish communities for vaccination .. some having as much as 70% of the children being vaccinated today. These communities are seeing autism now coinciding with the increases in vaccination, though still lower than the general public. This isn't proof, but is rather significant anecdotal evidence that within the Amish communities, those that vaccinate see increases in autism while those that don't have not.

Going back to the mercury subject, my personal views are that it really doesn't matter which constituent component causes damage. That debate can be entertaining for the scientists to wrestle with. The real issue is "do increases in autism rates coincide with vaccination" and the anecdotal evidence strongly supports a "yes" verdict.

We've gotten this entire vaccine argument twisted backwards. The burden of proof now seems to be that unless one can prove that the vaccines are sufficiently dangerous to outweigh the benefits, we will proceed under the assumption that the benefits outweigh the risks. However, those benefits are in fact arbitrary assumptions that wouldn't stand up to detailed statistical analysis, and it is this argument that should be pursued. Prove that the benefits outweigh the risks!

The bottom line here is that vaccines do cause harm to children and adults. The evidence proves this beyond a reasonable doubt. Over 1.5 Billion dollars in damages have been awarded from the vaccine damage super fund, and the burden of proof in order to claim damages is significant. The question that isn't being addressed is the proof of benefits.

Historical analysis shows significant anecdotal evidence that vaccine programs have caused far more harm than good, and that every single instance throughout history of mandatory vaccination programs have consistently been abandoned as a result of that.

Last edited by GuyNTexas; 10-14-2009 at 11:35 AM..
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