Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because I was there, read http://www.city-data.com/forum/8826664-post52.html
I'm pretty sure that the 1996 ACLS protocol for V.Fib. called for defibrillation -> Epinephrine -> Lidocaine. Atropine was meant to be used in Asystole. To say that you have a lot of respect for RN's and then say that they don't know anything about medicine is hypocritical. In your eyes, two years of college and passing a state certification test means nothing.
If you are not a doctor how do you know the patient had a Ventricular Fibrillation?
Hypothetically speaking, lets suppose that there's a patient with metastatic cancer that is decompensating. P=110 BP=80/50 R=28. This patient has already received several boluses of normal saline. There are no physicians available immediately, although the head nurse is trying to get one to come. The patient's LOC keeps decreasing along with the BP. According to you, the nursing staff should just wait and see the patient drift into cardiac arrest, rather than try to save this patient's life because that would break protocol.
Why there is not doctor on the floor? He is the one breaking the protocol.
And yes, the nurse should do what she can except breaking protocol, she shouldnt play with others people Lic., money (lawsuit) and career.
Quote:
By the time the doctor shows up, it might be too late. If the nurse gives the meds, he/she gets charged with 'playing doctor' and gets in trouble, even if the patient survives because of that.
Should be fired.
Quote:
On the other hand, if the nurse does not do anything and the patient dies, then he/she gets charged with failure to act, especially if a lawsuit follows. Either way, we get screwed.
The doctor and hospital gets it not the nurse. The doctor is the responsible not the nurse. Rarely a nurse get sued, they don't have money and lawyers knows that by law the doctor is responsible (even for the nurses acts or behavior)
Quote:
I couldn't stand this any longer. Doctors, with their 'holier than thou' attitude are the reason why I left nursing and became a mechanic. It is a lot easier to revive a dead engine than a dead patient.
Thanks God, by your way of thinking of acting without actual knowledge or education, you would have plenty of doctors out of the Hospital and in the Court or at home without a lic.
I personally think the whole "you need a prescription" thing is set up so the doctors make more money and the insurance companies don't have to put out as much money. Insurance would have to cover more, they use the you need a perscription as an excuse.
I can tell you from personal experience that an insurance company will use any excuse it can to NOT pay a claim. I remember the claims adjusters where I worked would deny a claim, saying it was the wrong diagnoses code or something like that, the provider would call and ask well what is the right diagnoses code or whatever and I was not allowed to tell them.
We got alot of claims denials because they filled out the paperwork wrong. We (in customer service) found a website that helped providers complete the claims forms correctly which was helpful.
I don't think its an accident that in countries that have socialized medicine, they don't require scripts as often. From what I recall you could buy a low dosage of Codience with another pain med in it over the counter in the UK (or as we are saying without a script).
I was with you all the way until this post. I'm the equivalent of an RN in veterinary medicine and even I know what VFib looks like...
Of course, RN's are required to know how to read an EKG. I had also my ACLS certification from 1994-2002. I know the P, QRS, and T waves, and even 7 years after leaving the profession, can still identify V.Fib, V.Tach., PSVT, Asystole (Duh!!), NSR, Ectopic beats, Atrial Fib., 1st, 2nd (type I and II), and 3rd degree blocks. Yet the good doctor (cjma79) thinks that RN certificates are found in cereal boxes.
Quote:
On the other hand, if the nurse does not do anything and the patient dies, then he/she gets charged with failure to act, especially if a lawsuit follows. Either way, we get screwed.
The doctor and hospital gets it not the nurse. The doctor is the responsible not the nurse. Rarely a nurse get sued, they don't have money and lawyers knows that by law the doctor is responsible (even for the nurses acts or behavior)
However legal it might be, the end result is that someone is dead, even if I don't get sued. And while nurses might not get sued as often, they often end up as scapegoats and get disciplinary action from the hospital, so the hospital can say that they did something about the incident.
Of course, RN's are required to know how to read an EKG. I had also my ACLS certification from 1994-2002. I know the P, QRS, and T waves, and even 7 years after leaving the profession, can still identify V.Fib, V.Tach., PSVT, Asystole (Duh!!), NSR, Ectopic beats, Atrial Fib., 1st, 2nd (type I and II), and 3rd degree blocks. Yet the good doctor (cjma79) thinks that RN certificates are found in cereal boxes.
I never said that but I have some nurses that can't read EKG/ECG. So not all nurses know how to read them. That doesn't mean that a lot do know. Still you haven't said anything about playing with doctors Lic. and careers.
However legal it might be, the end result is that someone is dead, even if I don't get sued. And while nurses might not get sued as often, they often end up as scapegoats and get disciplinary action from the hospital, so the hospital can say that they did something about the incident.
Easy for a nurse to play around with others people money and future.
No, he is not a teenager, and yes he is a professional. But would you ask a lawyer for medical advise just because he is a professional?
He didn't study medicine as a whole, only Pharmacology and Physiology. He doesn't study pathology, anatomy, etc. So just because he knows what medication goes with what disease he still needs to know what disease the patient has.
.
Nah, actually we do. I had two full years of pathophysiology/therapeutics at my school. A year of anatomy, too. Pharmacists are trained to understand disease proliferation as well as anyone. The difference is that they are not trained in the art of physical diagnosis....which is why people go to physicians. I mean, sure, I can tell you about hearing rales in a patient with pneumonia...but give me a stethoscope and I'd be clueless as to actually figure that whole mess out. What a primary care physician does that no other health professional can really do is primarily acting as a diagnostician above all else.
Personally, I am a clinical pharmacist at a hospital...you'd probably be bloody shocked at how involved I am in the treatment of patients...hell, the people at my own hospital don't even know half of the stuff we do behind the scenes.
Last edited by WVUPharm2007; 05-21-2009 at 01:43 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
