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If the main concern of a doctor is to make a good living, then I hope they DO indeed leave the world of medicine and go to other professions.
SO you would take all those loans, and work as hard as docs do (I see a good number putting in 12-14 hours where I work), if you didn't make a good living? I wouldn't want a doctor worrying if he's going to be paying off his education loan and his mortgage while he has his hands in me with a sharp object...or when his 8 hours hits just walking out because his shift is done. That's just me.
I disagree. I think a great majority go into medicine for the prestige. By the time a doctor pays his (or her) student loans and malpractice insurance, there isn't enough left to make it about the money. He'd have been better off training to be an electrician.
well i dont know much of what you are saying.
Most of my friends joked about which specialty paid more and which pay less.
Most of them went or tried to get match in good paying specialty.(also since the high paying specialty are the hardest to get, that means the more students want them.)
And the students loans are paid rather quickly. I am going to pay my loans in full in less then 6 years out of residency.
I am not saying that all doctors went for the money, but a some did.
I don't get it, are you talking about changing our health system with your opinion but then we can't question your opinion?
Obviously you don't get it! Slow down and re-read my post CAREFULLY. Moderater cut: Personal Attack
In response to your question ( And we take your word for it when you say it is a scam? ), here's what I wrote:
Do your own research and form your own conclusions. I simply shared my opinion.
Nowhere did I say or imply that anyone should take my word for ANYTHING, nor did I say or imply that my opinion should not be questioned. This is another example of your wild mind drawing conclusions out of thin air.
IMO...everything is open to question!
Last edited by doggiebus; 05-30-2009 at 05:08 PM..
Does anyone out there other them me feel like most doctors belittle you when you go to see them. It seems to me everytime I'm at the doctors office he tells (not asks me but tells me) that I need this done or I need that done NOW, and I'm really getting fed up with these people(the doctors) acting like they are some kind of gods. They make me feel like I'm a criminal and its starting to pi$$ me off.
I'm I the only one who feels this way OR is it just me and I should chill out?
Sunnydog...I agree with you...today a friend just related that her provider prescribed 3 meds w/o checking drug interactions...she had some doozies...her pharmacist checked it out for her and he sent her back to her provider with some printed materials.
Personally, I never take a prescription w/o checking it all out myself on the internet for interactions, side effects etc. Most docs hate that...but then, they aren't doing their job, are they?
For me the solution is to check everything myself, whether it's talking to other people or doing research. I think everyone should do the same before embarking blindly on a course of treatment presribed by their doc. Just my opinion....
I don't get it, are you talking about changing our health system with your opinion but then we can't question your opinion?
Obviously you don't get it! Slow down and re-read my post CAREFULLY. Moderater cut: Personal Attack
I guess medical school was direct, to the point and no spin.
Quote:
In response to your question ( And we take your word for it when you say it is a scam? ), here's what I wrote:
Do your own research and form your own conclusions. I simply shared my opinion.
Your conclusion doesn't come from real research.
Your view of health care is a little crazy in my opinion.
You just don't understand, even with the high pay, we still have a shortage of doctors in this country, and yet you think that even lowering this pay rate it will somehow create a new type of doctors.
NO body will want to be a doctor, listen, most of my friends that graduated from my university with degrees in Accounting are doing way better then me. They already have 9 years of experience working in their fields, have been a few years above 6 digits, while I was in medical school they were partying, and making good money, when I got to residency and working 80 hours and making 50k they were making 90k+ and still partying.
Finally I made it out of residency, have less hours, finally making 6 figures. Now I am to old to party, to tired also, and my friends are making more or less the same amount of money then me. While having a good time.
but still you think that people would go to medicine and work for 20 years for 100k?
But my friends are already making that money,
Last edited by doggiebus; 05-30-2009 at 05:09 PM..
Hey guys, it seems tempers are getting a little hot in this thread. Please remember to observe the City Data TOS and refrain from personal attacks and/or baiting. You can have a debate and still be civil and courteous to fellow posters. Please keep the tone respectful when addressing each other.
It's simple. When you want the best, you have to pay for the best. That is true in every field.
The best young minds are already starting to turn away from medicine bc of the lower pay (than in the past), the hassle with insurance companies/HMOs, the government interference, malpractice nonsense.
You want to drive the rest of them away with your 'lower pay' ideas?
Last edited by tao; 05-30-2009 at 08:50 AM..
Reason: edited out personal attack. Name calling is considered a personal attack.
Comment: As for compensation and taxes overall, I just don't know how I feel about that. Yes, doctors work hard, and yes, they certainly trained a hella-long time to do what they do. Props to them for that. I hope to do the same one day. But other people work hard too, and don't make nearly as much money. Most PhD folks take almost the same amount of time for schooling. I have a friend who expects to work 6 years on her anthropology PhD because you have to spend a year or two on some archeological site before coming back and writing your dissertation. So, she'll be in school almost as long as an internist. When she comes out, she's looking at tops 80-90K for a professorship (providing she can find one). Then she has to crank out a good amount of research for a good while to ensure she can keep her job.
Response:
Resident Physician
You really will not get it until you start residency. I used to think along the same lines, too, even through medical school. My husband is finishing his PhD in the sciences, and I know he works hard. But the stress level of having to finish your own dissertation vs. being yanked out of bed at 3:45am after laid down to finally sleep at 3:30am after deciding you would rather sleep than eat (even though you hadn't eaten since before noon that day because you were so busy) with a pregnant patient who came in with no prenatal care and is at 9cm with two previous c-sections with unknown scars (meaning a vaginal birth is life threatening and five other children meaning this kid is coming and coming quick) and a horrible looking airway so general anesthesia leaves you quivering in your boots. And if something goes wrong, you still open to a mulit-million dollar lawsuit even though this patient won't pay you anything for your work. This EXACT thing happened to me two nights ago.
Then do the above every third night for two months straight which means you never even have an actual weekend off. You'll start taking Pepcid all the time for gastritis (this coming from someone that never even took a Tums before residency) and argue with your family all the time from sheer exhaustion. While your friends of a similar age are buying houses and having kids, you'll still be renting and be grateful you can (just about) take care of a dog (IF you're married) and hoping your eggs make it to the end of residency (if you're female). And you'll have hundreds of thousands to dollars of debt to boot which the PhD student definitely doesn't have (any decent PhD student at a real university in real field of study should be totally self-funded).
So I would argue, all of the above is just a little more stressful and quite frankly a little more important than having to "crank out a good amount of research for a good while to ensure she can keep her job." Again, no disrespect to the academics and PhDs out there...my husband is one and plans on remaining in academics for the rest of his life. Because after a few years, he'll pull in about $100,000 and have basically have weeks of summer, winter, and spring vacation every year while showing up to work at 9am everyday and pulling an all nighter before a paper is due a few times a year. Most the professors in his department spend every summer abroad "teaching" some BS undergrad course so they can travel all the time on the university's dime. Sounds pretty good to me.
(Disclaimer: I usually love my work and love what I do. But I can't stand this BS of other people claiming that other professions work just as hard as doctors do. They DO NOT. Even IF they put in the same number of hours (and generally, they DO NOT) the stress level is nowhere near the same when you are acutely responsible for someone's life or two lives as in OB. Except maybe military seals and folks of that ilk. I'm sure they have us beat.
I posted earlier on this thread, but just let me reiterate~~I have found some very competent, NICE doctors in my life. I've run across a couple of kinda "surly" ones who didn't relate well to people. I will not choose to go to a doctor who acts like that if there is any choice at all. As others have said, there's good and bad in all professions. Again, try to find one who is personable. Maybe Dallas just has a surplus of friendly drs ( I do acknowledge this is a big city with lots of choices) but I just haven't found it that difficult to find a nice, but again, very competent dr.
One of the nicest OB-GYN's - over 30 yrs ago - I ever had was a dr. at Baylor in Dallas.
I work in the medical field and observe doc's behaviors. One of them pitches temper tantrums extraordinaire, screaming loudly, turning red, and stomping about. Kind of like the Terrible Twos. I didn't allow it to intimidate me because I thought: you know, doc, you and I are equals. If you want to make an idiot of yourself, be my guest. But don't expect it to change my behavior as I will do my job well no matter what you do.
He didn't quite know what to do when I responded very calmly to him even though he had just pitched an award-winning hissy fit. I don't know if his state of mind had to do with being tired, or what, but he is often this way. So are the rest of us: tired, and overworked at times. But, if one of us pitched a fit like this, we would be escorted out the door so fast everyone's heads would spin. And, the doc would not be around to support us.
I could go to this doc, and I do not. My care comes from a non-affiliated clinic where the staff is extremely professional and kind. It makes a huge different when you see the "real doc" as opposed to the persona presented only to patients. In all fairness, when you are a doc with hospital privileges, your life much of the time is not your own. So, it separates the "men from the boys" so to speak...the ones who are adept at handling stress and those who are not.
Unfortunately, until a doc begins officially practicing medicine, he/she may not realize the areas he/she is competent in and where he/she is not. Stress is one aspect of doctoring. The majority of docs I know DO NOT handle stress well at all. I could tell you some stories...and that would be a different post. They act out in some extremely bizarre ways.
There is one older family practitioner in our area. He is an inspiration to watch in action. All kinds of patients love him. His diagnostic and treatment skills are extraordinary. Due to his diverse, successful career, he could have a huge ego. But, he does not.
Our medical schools do their students a huge disfavor by transmitting to their students ego-inflating, authoritarian beliefs and attitudes.
Some of the docs seem to be immune to taking on the ego-inflation. These docs seem to hold it together, no matter what...although they do get a little rough around the edges. These are the docs that I want to give my business to. They get a gold star and a hug from me for their grace under fire.
Our medical schools do their students a huge disfavor by transmitting to their students ego-inflating, authoritarian beliefs and attitudes.
I don't know where you get that is what's taught. At our med school (rather prestigious), we were told not to p*ss off the nurses bc they were harder to replace than we were. I think some people with *ss-h*loe personalities tend to be drawn to medicine...not some nice guy goes into medicine and turns evil.
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( I do acknowledge this is a big city with lots of choices) but I just haven't found it that difficult to find a nice, but again, very competent dr.
