the list goes on...asthma (advantage, vitamin, lump, death)

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by fracturedman

yes But those that support the use of marijuana...have been on both sides in most cases. Those that oppose it have probably never tried it or they tried it and used it wrong and something "bad" happened.

So like I said before, this whole thread is a scam.
You probably don't have any medical condition and just playing around with the subject.
Especially with your ridiculous 25 medication, that turns out it was less.
You just have an agenda and this should be in the politics sections.

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by subsound

I think you stereotype and prejudice me as being a fairly extreme anti pot person, which is not even close to true even from comments in this thread. I think it can be used responsibly and is not a big deal...even legalizing it is not a bad idea. However, from the comments so far I think the OP is indulging a bit too much.

A BIT, I would say A LOT.

[cjma79]

The point is simple, is not safe.
THC is useful? yes, but marijuana isn't
Is like taking a nicotine pill, that is useful but smoking is not.
THC should be legal an OTC, maybe.
Should Marijuana be legal, that in my opinion should be no, we already have cigarettes and beer, I think that is plenty.

[fracturedman]

[quote]

Originally Posted by cjma79

Pharmaceutical can produce a far better THC compared to any home made lab. Also you don't buy drugs form the government.

Actually synthesized THC has been less effective than that of pure naturally made THC.

From your link:
"Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs. Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens."

SMOKING has those...smoking anything is bad for you...HELLO!!!

This is THC, and not marijuana, is like saying that nicotine is kills cancer cell that doesn't mean cigarettes are good for you.
Again, we are talking about marijuana or THC, there is a difference, THC is not necessarily harmful but marijuana is. THC can be produce by pharma, and make money, while marijuana would be illegal.

Wrong again...Lab created THC will is not as potent as naturally occurring THC.

Marijuana in itself is not harmful...smoking it is bad for you but there are many studies that show the use of a vaporizer has little to no harmful effects...and eating it has no harmful side effects.

Same, they are talking about THC and not specifically talking about marijuana.

[url="http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer.html"]
Talking about same report as above,


[url="http://www.worldhealth.net/news/thc_initiates_brain_cancer_cells_to_dest"]
Same report as above.


Test done on THC and not on marijuana.

Same THC.

Same.

THC IS MARIJUANA...THERE IS NO OTHER PLANT TO GET IT FROM. In order to get THC you must grow and cultivate the plant known as cannabis (marijuana) and extract the THC crystals from the plant.

From the link:
"Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar."
Also studies on rats have shown that it actually does cause cancer, but in his study he couldn't prove it.

Smoking anything can cause cancer...do you know how those studies work? they take a joint and smoke the entire thing in a box with the rat...compare the amount of smoke inhaled by the rat from the marijuana...it would cause lung problems in anyone...on joint to a rat is like 100 to us. I am sure they did this more than once everyday...imagine if you smoked 200 joints every day for 5 years...YOU WOULD FOR SURE HAVE SOME LUNG ISSUES.

Also, if marijuana is grown right and the chemicals are flushed from the plant and soil before harvesting it...you take out most if not all carcinogens.

Also from the link above:
"While this study suggests that marijuana has no link to head, neck, and lung cancer, a multicenter study released in March at an American Heart Association meeting linked marijuana use to increased risk of heart attacks. Murray A. Mittleman, MD, PhD, director of cardiovascular epidemiology at Beth Israel-Deaconess Hospital in Boston, told WebMD that marijuana smokers experience a 4.8-fold increase in the relative risk of heart attack during the first hour after smoking."

again from smoking it...lol...i sense a pattern.

From link above:
"The researchers found only a "very small" impairment in memory and learning among long-term marijuana users. "
Small but still there.

how long? memory loss is a normal thing.

This has both research stating yes and no.
Did you even read any of this?

Yes I did...it was a good source of info.

Not a real source of information.



Not a real source of information.
but
"Smoked marijuana contains about the same amount of carcinogens as does an equivalent amount of tobacco."

Government Admits Marijuana Use Does Not Cause Violence : Austin Criminal Defense Lawyer

From the link I provided:

Although marijuana abusers generally do not commit violent crimes, the distribution of marijuana occasionally is associated with violent crime in Connecticut.
Most violent crime associated with marijuana distribution in the state occurs between rival criminal groups and gangs.
Some marijuana distributors commit violent crimes to protect or expand their markets.
Law enforcement officials arrested two males in Connecticut in 1998 for killing a female Jamaican flight attendant and stealing 29 pounds of marijuana that she had stored in her home.

Really many of your links are pro marijuana sites and not neutral.

From the National Drug Intelligence Center, government ran organization:

Although marijuana abusers generally do not commit violent crimes, the distribution of marijuana occasionally is associated with violent crime in Connecticut. Most violent crime associated with marijuana distribution in the state occurs between rival criminal groups and gangs. Some marijuana distributors commit violent crimes to protect or expand their markets. Law enforcement officials arrested two males in Connecticut in 1998 for killing a female Jamaican flight attendant and stealing 29 pounds of marijuana that she had stored in her home.

If I didnt know any better I would say that those two statements are the same as they came from the NDIC.

Also there are reason why making legal also, same statement goes both way.


So no one can patent most drugs, but still big pharma makes them.
Patents only last for 7 years.



Really so what do you call vaccines?? cheap and it cures you(or rather makes you immune to it. )

what was the last vaccine or cure that was made? The last major cure was for polio..that was in the 1950's...odd that with all this medical break through and technology that we have compared to then...why have no cures been found? Because there is money is treatments and none in cures..think about it...so we all get a shot at birth...I wonder what would happen if we did not get some of those shots? I know they think alot of health problems are from those same vaccines.

whats really funny is that they throw hemp in the lot of this illegality...hemp you cannot smoke and get high...it has nowhere near enough THC to have any effect...but if they legalize hemp...they would have to legalize its female side as well.

What I find odd is that tobacco kills millions of people each and every year. Not one report of death from marijuana...ODD. So why is Tobacco still legal? Hell why is Alcohol still legal...that is worse than anything...it is a huge depressant, causes kidney disease, heart disease, cancer, major loss of brain cells, slows brain development and function, causes obesity...can cause blindness, ulcers, tumors, what else...oh, poor judgment, and how about INSTANT DEATH from drinking to much to fast.

Caffeine, Tylenol, aspirin, steroids, vitamins, and many other substances that are taken by millions could cause a number of unhealthy side effects and even death.

Please... that just doesn't make any sense.

How do those comments not make any sense? If we found a cheaper and a renewable source of fuel the oil companies would be out of their monopoly. As would the lumber industry in making paper.

Again, not making any sense.

Again how does it not make sense? Hemp is a fiber like cotton and many other fibers...it is stronger than most as well as cheaper than most.

Wiki is not a good source of information but still,
LOOK:
In comparison, study on cannabis vaporizing found that subjects were "only 40% as likely to report respiratory symptoms as users who do not vaporize, even when age, sex, cigarette use, and amount of cannabis consumed are controlled."

I will now post the whole paragraph and not the what you want...

In comparison, study on cannabis vaporizing found that subjects were "only 40% as likely to report respiratory symptoms as users who do not vaporize, even when age, sex, cigarette use, and amount of cannabis consumed are controlled."[26] Another study found vaporizers to be "a safe and effective cannabinoid delivery system

Also:
"A 2007 study by the Canadian government found cannabis smoke contained more toxic substances than tobacco smoke"

"The study determined that marijuana smoke contained 20 times more ammonia, and five times more hydrogen cyanide and nitrogen oxides than tobacco smoke."
Great STUFF...

again smoke...but then again they are still unable to show me a lung that is purely affected by marijuana smoke alone. when they show me lung that is free from tobacco use and purely marijuana I will beleive it...but in a human and not some lab rat or monkey.

"Cannabis use has been assessed by several studies to be correlated with the development of anxiety, psychosis, and depression"

"Though some fMRI studies have shown changes in neurological function in long term heavy cannabis users, no long term behavioral effects after abstinence have been linked to these changes."

the 2007 canadian study also says...

"In spite of this, recent studies have been unable to demonstrate a direct link between lung cancer and frequent direct inhalation of marijuana smoke"

and

"Some studies have even shown that the non-intoxicating ingredient CBD found in marijuana may be useful in treating breast cancer."


you also mislead...and read only what you want to because most of the quotes text you post is not qouted 100% but only partially...

The following are posts that you posted and I completed...

Cannabis use has been assessed by several studies to be correlated with the development of anxiety, psychosis, and depression,[35][36] however, no causal mechanism has been proven, and the meaning of the correlation and its direction is a subject of debate that has not been resolved in the scientific community.

Though cannabis use has at times been associated with stroke, there is no firmly established link, and potential mechanisms are unknown.[40] Similarly, there is no established relationship between cannabis use and heart disease, including exacerbation of cases of existing heart disease.[41] Though some fMRI studies have shown changes in neurological function in long term heavy cannabis users, no long term behavioral effects after abstinence have been linked to these changes.[42]

Sure, the Government would actually make money, they would spend less money on drug enforcement and on prisons.
Also government doesn't make any profit from any drug. So they don't really care about making money.

They dont make any money? really...odd then why do you get a ticket if you are caught or have to pay a fine? where do you think that money goes? Also the government grows marijuana for studies that they SELL to companies to study. Again where do you think that money goes? Prisons are also a great business...Prisons are now a private sector in america...if you have enough money you can build one.

This is a blog from someone, not scientific data or reliable source.

Odd last time I checked Scientific America was a SCIENCE ORGANIZATION THAT HAD THE RESPECT FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THE GOVERNMENT.

Not a reliable source.

Why is it not a reliable source? becasue it is a news company?

what makes a source reliable to you? if a pharmacutical company did it or a brach of the government did it?

Also I doubt you ever smoked...do you have any proof? how long did you smoke? How much did you smoke? Why did you quit? What kind did you smoke?

I am sorry but I cannot take your word that you used to smoke. It is an unreliable source.

[fracturedman]

Originally Posted by cjma79

So like I said before, this whole thread is a scam.
You probably don't have any medical condition and just playing around with the subject.
Especially with your ridiculous 25 medication, that turns out it was less.
You just have an agenda and this should be in the politics sections.

If you would like I would gladly have you come with me to my doctors office and he could tell you what he treats me for and what he treats me with.

Odd that all of this stuff in his office such as table covers, pens, prescription pads, binders, chairs and other supplies have a Pharmaceutical companies logo or medicine all over them...Being a doctor means getting sponsors...its like a sport now.

Even his clock has a brand of medicine stamped on it..so does all of his paper in his printer. I think it is safe to say that he is sponsored or gets a kick back from these companies.

[fracturedman]

Originally Posted by cjma79

The point is simple, is not safe.
THC is useful? yes, but marijuana isn't
Is like taking a nicotine pill, that is useful but smoking is not.
THC should be legal an OTC, maybe.
Should Marijuana be legal, that in my opinion should be no, we already have cigarettes and beer, I think that is plenty.

Wow, so you would allow two of the largest know substances to that cause disease and sickness and death to be allowed, but a say that marijuana that has no death records and no proven health side effects other than from smoking should be illegal.

seriously...watch, "The Union: the business behind getting high"

It is very informative and is a reliable source...they quote many, many other reliable and respectable sources.

[fracturedman]

cjma79,

In regards to most of your links they are not reliable sources of info...for example:

BBC NEWS | Health | Cannabis smoke 'has more toxins'
Cannabis bigger cancer risk than cigarettes: study | Health | Reuters
SpringerLink - Journal Article
BBSNews - Marijuana Helps Elderly Suffering from Anorexia Gain Weight
Alcohol & Drug Abuse - Philadelphia Trucking Accident Lawyers, Commercial Drivers License, CDL
Cannabis is linked to rising child crime and harder drugs - Times Online
Ohio Domestic Violence Call Leads to Marijuana Possession Charges | www.myohiodefenselawyer.com
Killingly police: Domestic call leads to marijuana bust - Norwich, CT - Norwich Bulletin

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by fracturedman

Actually synthesized THC has been less effective than that of pure naturally made THC.

And you got this information from where?

SMOKING has those...smoking anything is bad for you...HELLO!!!

Also vaporizing has carcinogens.

Wrong again...Lab created THC will is not as potent as naturally occurring THC.

And you got this information from where?

Marijuana in itself is not harmful...smoking it is bad for you but there are many studies that show the use of a vaporizer has little to no harmful effects...and eating it has no harmful side effects.

In one of your links it states that still 40%.

THC IS MARIJUANA...THERE IS NO OTHER PLANT TO GET IT FROM. In order to get THC you must grow and cultivate the plant known as cannabis (marijuana) and extract the THC crystals from the plant.

So nicotine is cigarette?
Pure THC is not marijuana is only a molecular structure part of the plant not the whole plant. You can buy nicotine pills and still not smoke, so what is the deal?

Smoking anything can cause cancer...do you know how those studies work? they take a joint and smoke the entire thing in a box with the rat...compare the amount of smoke inhaled by the rat from the marijuana...it would cause lung problems in anyone...on joint to a rat is like 100 to us. I am sure they did this more than once everyday...imagine if you smoked 200 joints every day for 5 years...YOU WOULD FOR SURE HAVE SOME LUNG ISSUES.

You don't know how they do it, they try to make the same amount by size ratio.

Also, if marijuana is grown right and the chemicals are flushed from the plant and soil before harvesting it...you take out most if not all carcinogens.

That is impossible unless you are taking pure THC in a form of a pill.
Carcinogens are part of the plant, in order to take it out you have to put the plant in solvents and destroy the plant, the same way you make pure THC. Is impossible to buy marijuana and not get the carcinogens, no matter how clean it is. Is like saying, if you clean well a poisonous berry you wont get sick, that would be impossible since the poison is part of the berry.

again from smoking it...lol...i sense a pattern.

So what is the most common way people consume marijuana?

how long? memory loss is a normal thing.

You should read the research.

Yes I did...it was a good source of info.

So you do know that it has damaging information for your point of view.

Government Admits Marijuana Use Does Not Cause Violence : Austin Criminal Defense Lawyer

Not a reliable source.

From the link I provided:

Although marijuana abusers generally do not commit violent crimes, the distribution of marijuana occasionally is associated with violent crime in Connecticut.
Most violent crime associated with marijuana distribution in the state occurs between rival criminal groups and gangs.
Some marijuana distributors commit violent crimes to protect or expand their markets.
Law enforcement officials arrested two males in Connecticut in 1998 for killing a female Jamaican flight attendant and stealing 29 pounds of marijuana that she had stored in her home.

And the point is? that doesn't mean is safe.

Really many of your links are pro marijuana sites and not neutral.

All of my site are from research from university or organizations.

From the National Drug Intelligence Center, government ran organization:

Although marijuana abusers generally do not commit violent crimes, the distribution of marijuana occasionally is associated with violent crime in Connecticut. Most violent crime associated with marijuana distribution in the state occurs between rival criminal groups and gangs. Some marijuana distributors commit violent crimes to protect or expand their markets. Law enforcement officials arrested two males in Connecticut in 1998 for killing a female Jamaican flight attendant and stealing 29 pounds of marijuana that she had stored in her home.

So I guess repeating the same thing over and over is going to win this?

If I didnt know any better I would say that those two statements are the same as they came from the NDIC.

Yes they are the same, but the link is not reliable.

what was the last vaccine or cure that was made?

currently making the swine flu vaccines, and HIV vaccine is currently being tested in India, Africa and Europe.

The last major cure was for polio..that was in the 1950's.

So when you have an infection, the doctor doesn't cure you?

..odd that with all this medical break through and technology that we have compared to then...why have no cures been found?

I really think you are lost, how do you explain cures for cancer? Also how do you explain the rise in life expectancy from the 1950, 1900, and 1800's?

Because there is money is treatments and none in cures.

There is plenty money in curing people also.

.think about it...so we all get a shot at birth...I wonder what would happen if we did not get some of those shots? I know they think alot of health problems are from those same vaccines.

Is already happening, from places that vaccination are bellow the effective level, like in california, where only 70% of the children are vaccinated, they are seeing a rise in infections.

whats really funny is that they throw hemp in the lot of this illegality...hemp you cannot smoke and get high...it has nowhere near enough THC to have any effect...but if they legalize hemp...they would have to legalize its female side as well.

OK.

What I find odd is that tobacco kills millions of people each and every year. Not one report of death from marijuana...ODD. So why is Tobacco still legal? Hell why is Alcohol still legal.

No one has died from marijuana overdose, that doesn't mean people haven't died from car accident related to marijuana use.

..that is worse than anything...it is a huge depressant, causes kidney disease, heart disease, cancer, major loss of brain cells, slows brain development and function, causes obesity.

Everything that you have stated here is also part of smoking marijuana, like I said before, THC could be legal, but not marijuana.

..can cause blindness, ulcers, tumors, what else...oh, poor judgment, and how about INSTANT DEATH from drinking to much to fast.

Marijuana can also cause poor judgment.

Caffeine, Tylenol, aspirin, steroids, vitamins, and many other substances that are taken by millions could cause a number of unhealthy side effects and even death.

Caffeine? just like THC, caffeine is a very low level of toxicity, you have to take extremely high levels to be toxic.

How do those comments not make any sense? If we found a cheaper and a renewable source of fuel the oil companies would be out of their monopoly. As would the lumber industry in making paper.

We use trees for a lot of things, and is cheap and renewable source.
Also hemp can't be used for wood.

Again how does it not make sense? Hemp is a fiber like cotton and many other fibers...it is stronger than most as well as cheaper than most.

How do you know is cheaper, and easier?

I will now post the whole paragraph and not the what you want...

In comparison, study on cannabis vaporizing found that subjects were "only 40% as likely to report respiratory symptoms as users who do not vaporize, even when age, sex, cigarette use, and amount of cannabis consumed are controlled."[26] Another study found vaporizers to be "a safe and effective cannabinoid delivery system

So there is 2 study saying different things. Still is unclear if it safe.

again smoke...but then again they are still unable to show me a lung that is purely affected by marijuana smoke alone. when they show me lung that is free from tobacco use and purely marijuana I will beleive it...but in a human and not some lab rat or monkey.

I guess you don't know how research work and don't know why they use rats and/or monkeys.

the 2007 canadian study also says...

"In spite of this, recent studies have been unable to demonstrate a direct link between lung cancer and frequent direct inhalation of marijuana smoke"

There is a link, and it has be shown the problem is that usually people don't smoke marijuana like cigarettes(the amount), but that would change once is legal.

"Some studies have even shown that the non-intoxicating ingredient CBD found in marijuana may be useful in treating breast cancer."

That doesn't mean that marijuana is safe, it only means that it has good drugs that we can use from it, in pure pills.

you also mislead...and read only what you want to because most of the quotes text you post is not qouted 100% but only partially...

I quote until the . not neceserly the whole paragraph
I quote is until a the end of a sentence or end of a paragraph, both are corrected.

They dont make any money? really...odd then why do you get a ticket if you are caught or have to pay a fine? where do you think that money goes? Also the government grows marijuana for studies that they SELL to companies to study. Again where do you think that money goes? Prisons are also a great business...Prisons are now a private sector in america...if you have enough money you can build one.

What? do you compare that to the deficit that of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS that the US has on fighting the drug wars? I guess those little tickets pays them right? If so, why it has deficit?
Prison is a great business? You really are not involved in politic right? Do you know how much the government spend on each prisoner? is like 55,000 dollars a year for each prisoner, also a prison doesn't have any income. So how is it a good business, how does a prison produce money?

Odd last time I checked Scientific America was a SCIENCE ORGANIZATION THAT HAD THE RESPECT FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THE GOVERNMENT.

Because is a BLOG withing the magazine that even you can start a BLOG.
Also BLOGS are your opinions.

Why is it not a reliable source? becasue it is a news company?

Because it doesn't say the research and it doesn't have a link to the research, you just take the word of the reporter.

what makes a source reliable to you? if a pharmacutical company did it or a brach of the government did it?

And actual research, a link to an actual research done, not a like that a person has wrote about the research and changed or input stuff that was not original part of the journal. A link to webpage that is not part of the research can be reliable if it has links and direct quotes (with links to support it)

Also I doubt you ever smoked...do you have any proof? how long did you smoke? How much did you smoke? Why did you quit? What kind did you smoke?

I started in high school around 16, continue all the way to medical school smoking, once in residency they had everybody tested and I had to stop.

I am sorry but I cannot take your word that you used to smoke. It is an unreliable source.

Just like your fake story about your 25 medication and this whole thing is a scam.

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by fracturedman

If you would like I would gladly have you come with me to my doctors office and he could tell you what he treats me for and what he treats me with.

No worry, I don't need to. I can smell it from a mile away.

Odd that all of this stuff in his office such as table covers, pens, prescription pads, binders, chairs and other supplies have a Pharmaceutical companies logo or medicine all over them...Being a doctor means getting sponsors...its like a sport now.

Doctors don't get paid by pharmaceuticals, this is only to show you the small understanding and the lack of knowledge you have in the subject.
Doctors get paid by mainly 2 source, insurance company and patients.

Even his clock has a brand of medicine stamped on it..so does all of his paper in his printer. I think it is safe to say that he is sponsored or gets a kick back from these companies.

NOPE, he doesn't actually with the new regulation that almost all states are adapting, those little gifts are gone soon, Here in NY they are already gone.
And no pharmaceutical don't pay doctors in practice, the pharmaceutical can tell how many you have prescribe their drug, how can they pay you if they don't know?

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by fracturedman

Wow, so you would allow two of the largest know substances to that cause disease and sickness and death to be allowed, but a say that marijuana that has no death records and no proven health side effects other than from smoking should be illegal.

It has plenty of proven side effects.
It has not overdose death record, not the same thing.

seriously...watch, "The Union: the business behind getting high"

please.

It is very informative and is a reliable source...they quote many, many other reliable and respectable sources.

I am sure they ignore all that damage their point of view, and only pick the "good ones"