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Old 10-17-2009, 08:12 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
7,551 posts, read 4,778,319 times
Reputation: 1733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Different system here, which is why I suggested that you keep an eye out for reports of our medical community dropping like flies and being unable to care for others affected by the epidemic. Like I said, HUGE risk for the government to take. They must have been fairly convinced they could cope with a negative outcome from vaccinating our first defence.

Is it absolutely necessary for you to be rude simply because we don't share the same view? If you'd have prefered that only people agree with you then I'd suggest you mention that in your original post.
Its like robbing Pete and paying Paul. Its seems good for the short term but it might not be good for the long term. Same idea applies here.
I saw no rudeness anywhere.

 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:18 PM
 
3,441 posts, read 5,003,536 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
There is certainly NOT a strong link between the smallpox vaccine and the development of AIDS...

An opinion piece from 22 years ago is your "proof" of a STRONG link????

Its rubbish...


The TRUTH About A.I.D.S, Part 1

Here is something that happened not to long ago.

YouTube - BAYER AND BAXTER KNOWINGLY INFECTED HEMOPHILIAC PATIENTS WITH HIV/AIDS TAINTED VACCINE!!

Last edited by Morphous01; 10-17-2009 at 08:40 PM..
 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
3,864 posts, read 5,441,540 times
Reputation: 5849
If nothing else, this thread sure shows how very polarized we folks are over the topic of vaccines=good or vaccine=bad. Or somewhere in the middle, some vaccines good, some vaccines not good.

Personally, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, but do think we're way over-vaccinated and that's causing us harm.

A shame we're not given more free choice on the matter.

So many kids are required to have mandatory vaccines before being allowed to attend school. Have there been any studies that show the possible results of all these combined substances on our children's fragile immune systems? Why not? Well, who would fund them? Certainly not the manufacturers of the vaccines...this is what worries me...
 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:24 PM
 
3,441 posts, read 5,003,536 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
Smallpox and AIDS...post some links to your 'research' you have found...scientific data...publications...that is a bold claim you feel strongly about so how did you come to that conclusion.
Danielle, I posted a video above, anyhow, I'm not going to waste my time posting articles for you that you WON'T read because you already have your own beliefs.

Last edited by Morphous01; 10-17-2009 at 08:36 PM..
 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:38 PM
 
2,579 posts, read 6,305,397 times
Reputation: 3680
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I'm with you. Please show all of these quacks the scientifically sound, peer reviewed results of the double blind, efficacy testing that has been done proving that all of the vaccines, including the flu, work, and prevent the diseases they are supposed to prevent. Just give these people the links to those studies. Surely there must be tons of them. After all, everybody KNOWS they work, right? So nobody would just take some company's word for it would they? That wouldn't be very smart or scientific. So, just for those conspiracy nuts out there ... show them the proof, and put this baby to bed, OK?

Oh ... you can't? That's probably because there have been no studies performed with regard to if these vaccines actually work. All of the studies are about whether they are safe or not ... we just automatically "assume" they work, because ... well .. everybody knows that they work, right? I mean, a pharmaceutical company wouldn't sell you something that doesn't work, would they? And surely the FDA wouldn't approve something that hasn't been proven to at least work most of the time, right? Oh... the FDA doesn't require proof that they actually work ? That's unbelievable? Believe it!

Here, for your reading pleasure is a vaccine proponent at Science-Based Medicine scoffing at the idea that vaccines don't work, and his very scientific tap dance around the subject. Read it carefully.

Science-Based Medicine Flu Vaccine Efficacy

The bullet points of this nonsensical double talk are:

1) Vaccine makers have to guess which strain will circulate 9 months later
(Since flu viruses can mutate in a matter of days, guesses are often wrong)


2) Sometimes they don't guess right, and that "can" decrease the efficacy.
(No, if they don't guess right, the vaccine is completely useless)

3) Don't ask me for the evidence, I have a life and a family. Do your own grunt work. (Don't ask me for studies that don't exist, just trust me that they do)

4) In a bit of a medical irony, the more likely a patient is to need protection from the vaccine, the less likely they are to get a protective antibody response from the vaccine.
(A bit of a medical irony? Ha! There you have it folks ... those that need the protection aren't likely to respond to the vaccine! .. The converse is also true .. if your immune system is strong enough to develop a response to the vaccine, it was strong enough to protect you from the virus itself, and didn't need a vaccine)

5) Vaccination rates are often suboptimal to gain "heard" immunity
(Herd immunity is a theory only .. and the theory is dead if the vaccine doesn't produce immunity in those that need it !!! .. see #4)

6) It's difficult to prove efficacy in clinical studies, and there are a lot of anti-vaccine goofs out there that want 100% effective and safe vaccines. The influenza vaccine is not 100% efficacious in preventing disease, but it is as close to 100% safe, and much safer than the disease. (So it may not work all of the time, but its much safer than the disease? So is orange juice, and that has ZERO serious side effects)

The entire diatribe is a fast dance around the fact that the vaccines don't work. They don't work for the people who need it, and not needed for the people it might work for!

The writer insists that they do work, while giving all of the reasons why they might not work in this instance, or that case, or under some conditions.

Please read this article to get a clear understanding of double talk at it's very finest.

So the next time we talk about those very rare but serious side effects, and somebody uses this wonderful excuse about the benefits far outweighing the risks ... let's try and remember that those "benefits" are pie in the sky beliefs, with absolutely no evidence ... and no scientific proof to back them up. OK?

And let's also refrain from name calling when reasonable people display a modicum of common sense by asking simple questions about safety and efficacy of these vaccines.

If anything can be considered quackery ... it's the double talkers who's only answer to these questions is "trust me".
Here we go again....lots of double talk with no facts to back up your propaganda campaign...

Which vaccines exactly are you referring to?? You seem to be painting with a pretty broad brush here ( so surprising )

You are also talking out of your rear end again...

Which vaccine would you like stats regarding efficacy on? You have seemingly indicted ALL vaccines..

By the way, it isn't neccessary or ethical to perform double blind RCT on vaccine efficacy....one only needs to prove antibody production which is pretty easy to do...


MMR

ScienceDirect - Vaccine : Antibodies to measles, mumps and rubella in UK children 4 years after vaccination with different MMR vaccines

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

MMR vaccine{---}worries are not justified -- ELLIMAN et al. 85 (4): 271 -- Archives of Disease in Childhood

DTAP

Preventing Tetanus, Diphtheria, and Pertussis Among Adolescents: Use of Tetanus Toxoid, Reduced Diphtheria Toxoid and Acellular Pertussis Vaccines </P><P>Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)

Hep B

The recommended series of three intramuscular doses of hepatitis B vaccine induces a protective antibody response (anti-HBs >=10 milli-inter- national units {mIU}/mL) in >90% of healthy adults and in >95% of infants, children, and adolescents (31-33

Hepatitis B Virus: A Comprehensive Strategy for Eliminating Transmission in the United States Through Universal Childhood Vaccination: Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP)



I could go on but what's the point??

EVERY vaccine has data to PROVE its effectiveness in producing a corresponding antibody response.

To insinuate to the contrary is not only misleading it is an unmitigated lie...
 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:47 PM
 
Location: somewhere
3,667 posts, read 5,269,353 times
Reputation: 2051
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
If nothing else, this thread sure shows how very polarized we folks are over the topic of vaccines=good or vaccine=bad. Or somewhere in the middle, some vaccines good, some vaccines not good.

Personally, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, but do think we're way over-vaccinated and that's causing us harm.

A shame we're not given more free choice on the matter.

So many kids are required to have mandatory vaccines before being allowed to attend school. Have there been any studies that show the possible results of all these combined substances on our children's fragile immune systems? Why not? Well, who would fund them? Certainly not the manufacturers of the vaccines...this is what worries me...
I agree with you. I too am in the middle, both myself and my kids have been vaccinated with the standard vaccinations, none of us get flu shots, nor would I allow them to get the newer shots on the market right now, maybe in a couple of years after there is more time to see any side effects. I am very wary of new shots (Gardasil, the Gardasil for boys, Menactra) they have just not been on the market long enough to see the long term side effects if there are any.

I have an bad effects from 2 shots, when I was a teenager despite having received my MMR I got the mumps, then when I was 29 it was recommened that I have a booster MMR, unknown to me I was pg and lost that baby, the doctor said it was because of the shot. When I got my one and only flu shot it seemed like that year I was sicker than I had ever been, not from the flu but it seemed as if the flu shot had somehow weakened my immune system. I am sure those in the medical field will say it was not the shot but somehow I just can't put that out of my mind. I haven't had one since.

I would never try to disuade someone from getting any shot, it is personal opinion but what I would do is urge them to do their own research and speak with their doctor.
 
Old 10-17-2009, 08:48 PM
 
2,579 posts, read 6,305,397 times
Reputation: 3680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morphous01 View Post
Great going

You backed up one ridiculous reference with a Youtube done by a quack nutjob detailing insane conspiracy theories...

Way to build a case
 
Old 10-17-2009, 10:04 PM
 
3,441 posts, read 5,003,536 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
Great going

You backed up one ridiculous reference with a Youtube done by a quack nutjob detailing insane conspiracy theories.



(*yawn*) Just like all your other posts around here bludevil; "the guy is a quack". You then then take the position that YOUR information is correct and accurate, ONCE AGAIN, completely ignoring that the CDC, the WHO, and the vaccine company's call have a incestuous, interdependent relationship.

You know, even though you hide behind a computer, the way you "pop up" and aggressively attack and discredit others pretty much exposes your true motives. I never see you in any other parts of this website, you just hide out here and do your job.

So in summery, you're here to promote (which is why you post CDC articles) the status quo, and you are here to discredit alternative information. So, for now on, you will be on my ignore list because you are a complete waste of time.

Oh, and as far as the "evidence" well I know you will not read any of this but this is for anybody who passes by this post; the 134 page report is called: Bioterrorism Evidence

Evidence of the Use of Pandemic Flu to Depopulate USA - Fullscreen
 
Old 10-17-2009, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Broward County
2,519 posts, read 7,097,287 times
Reputation: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
If you're thinking about getting a shot for the swine flu or any other type of vaccination, you might want to think twice after reading this article:

Dr. Andrew Moulden (Interview): What You Were Never Told About Vaccines | VacTRUTH

just a small paragraph from it:

"2.) Dr. Moulden, we understand that you have made a revolutionary discovery. Can you tell us about it?

I would be happy to.
Through my extensive research and my work throughout the years, I have discovered that vaccinations are causing impaired blood flow (ischemia) to brain and body from clinically silent to death. These are strokes across the board for all of us. I have reason to believe that all are being affected and all vaccinations ARE causing the overwhelming rise in autism, specific learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, sudden infant death, gulf war syndrome, dementia, seizure disorders, some cancers it would appear, and much much more."
I would rather take the risk than die from something I KNOW could have been prevented for sure.
 
Old 10-17-2009, 10:52 PM
 
3,191 posts, read 5,651,447 times
Reputation: 2083
Thank you OP for posting the link in the first post. I always prefer to be informed of pros and cons relating to health issues, whether they come from our illustrious AMA board certified doctors practicing medicine and/or scientists backed by the pharmacological giants, or from others who are willing to put their views and opinions, based on study/research, out there for consideration.

An informed lemming Might choose to not jump the cliff
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