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Old 12-01-2009, 01:32 PM
 
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It may be the kindest thing you can do is NOT put a pillow under her as she crashes to bottom and to be there when and if she decides she needs to put the pieces together. Sometimes helping out only forestalls the inevitiable wake up call.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
I do that each week at my Toastmasters meeting. I am working on public speaking skills. These people are all "normal" sans the drama.

There is no sanity in these friendships, yet I feel the need to not let her down in her time of need. I just spoke to her roommate and it made me feel nauseated. I, myself, am out of sleeping pills or I'd just take one and sleep.

As to counseling, yes. I agree. Right now this whole situation is making me sick. I am being sucked in whether I want to or not. I just don't see how I can walk away from a friend in need, but I can't let this get the best of me. Thanks for being in my corner.
Reading this it sounds as though this already is getting the best of you. Friendships are two way streets. As long as your friend is an addict it will always only be about "her". That is not a friend, that is a dependant. As long as you do not set strick boundaries and stick to them you are enabling her; and, she is using you. Until she gets herself straight and sober she will always be in a "time of need". You are on sleeping pills? Are you sure you are not enabling each other?

The "velvet glove" has not worked in the past and there is no reason to believe it will work now. Some people have to hit bottom before they can pull themselves out of the holes they have dug themselves with their addictions. Some people never can be helped. It is a choice she will have to make for herself and a journey she will have to take for herself.

Your friend will likely go through DT's in the hospital unless she gets someone to sneak her in a bottle. It is best if she go straight to a 24/7 program. I suspect social services at the hospital where she is recovering from surgery would agree to meet with her if you asked.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:20 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,154,156 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Reading this it sounds as though this already is getting the best of you. Friendships are two way streets. As long as your friend is an addict it will always only be about "her". That is not a friend, that is a dependant. As long as you do not set strick boundaries and stick to them you are enabling her; and, she is using you. Until she gets herself straight and sober she will always be in a "time of need". You are on sleeping pills? Are you sure you are not enabling each other?

The "velvet glove" has not worked in the past and there is no reason to believe it will work now. Some people have to hit bottom before they can pull themselves out of the holes they have dug themselves with their addictions. Some people never can be helped. It is a choice she will have to make for herself and a journey she will have to take for herself.

Your friend will likely go through DT's in the hospital unless she gets someone to sneak her in a bottle. It is best if she go straight to a 24/7 program. I suspect social services at the hospital where she is recovering from surgery would agree to meet with her if you asked.
The hospital offered her a choice of a beer or Ativan!
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: SA
744 posts, read 1,048,638 times
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You say in the opening that she has actually died and was brought back. Was she drinking heavily before that or just after. She may have guilt feelings she is trying to drown thinking she should not be here. I agree with several of the other posters that say you should not try and soften the fall. Be there to watch her hit bottom and then when she is ready to put the pieces back together help her. Let her know that is what friends do, but friendship is fragile as is life and will not be able to last if she continues her self destruction.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
15,637 posts, read 14,692,108 times
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There have been some very wise suggestions in this thread.

I agree with most of them.

Here's the thing, movin' on, you absolutely must not sacrifice yourself at the alter of this addict. She will let you do so and you simply must not do it. Frankly, you already are. Stop.

She has not hit her bottom yet. There are high bottom drunks and there are low bottom drunks. It appears that she is a low bottom drunk. Sometimes living under a bridge is not low enough for a low bottom drunk to get the message. Turn this over to the social worker at the hospital and let it go. Other than making sure the dog and cat are taken care of (they are innocent creatures who cannot make arrangements for themselves) you should stay out of it. Please stay out of it. Doing so does not make you a bad person and having guilt over the situation is fruitless and self-damaging. You cannot help her. She doesn't even care enough to help herself. It's going to get worse. Believe me, it will get worse.

You cannot fix an alcoholic. Only she can make that decision. Don't be an enabler or rescuer. Don't spin your wheels trying to help her. She's not worried and you just cannot shoulder that responsibility without suffering great damage to yourself. Tell the social worker what is going on and turn it over to him or her.

Look at what you are going through right now. You can't sleep for worrying about transportation for her. Do you think she is worrying about it? No, she isn't. Why should she when you are doing the worrying for her.

I don't want it to sound like I am coming down on you. You are obviously a caring, loving friend to her. But you have to draw the line and now is the time to do it. Let her lose her job. Let her handle the rental situation. Let her worry about the lack of money. Any money she has she will spend on alcohol before food, anyway. She is not going to start taking care of herself until she hits bottom and even then she may not.

You are beating your head against a stone wall. You are the one who will bleed. She won't as long as she can get booze. And she WILL get booze. Trust me on that.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wish you the best of luck. I wish her the best of luck. But, I wish it to both of you separately. I'm also concerned about the pets. I saw an episode on Intervention this week that involved a woman with two cats. Her bottom was the loss of her cats. That is what made her see the light and agree to go away for help. One never knows what the event will be that causes a light to go on in an addict/alcoholic's mind. Everyone's bottom is different. Remember that alcohol is her best friend. She loves it more than she loves anything or anyone in this world. She will drain you. For your own survival and well being you cannot let that happen.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:30 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,154,156 times
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Originally Posted by Ketabcha View Post
There have been some very wise suggestions in this thread.

I agree with most of them.

Here's the thing, movin' on, you absolutely must not sacrifice yourself at the alter of this addict. She will let you do so and you simply must not do it. Frankly, you already are. Stop.

She has not hit her bottom yet. There are high bottom drunks and there are low bottom drunks. It appears that she is a low bottom drunk. Sometimes living under a bridge is not low enough for a low bottom drunk to get the message. Turn this over to the social worker at the hospital and let it go. Other than making sure the dog and cat are taken care of (they are innocent creatures who cannot make arrangements for themselves) you should stay out of it. Please stay out of it. Doing so does not make you a bad person and having guilt over the situation is fruitless and self-damaging. You cannot help her. She doesn't even care enough to help herself. It's going to get worse. Believe me, it will get worse.

You cannot fix an alcoholic. Only she can make that decision. Don't be an enabler or rescuer. Don't spin your wheels trying to help her. She's not worried and you just cannot shoulder that responsibility without suffering great damage to yourself. Tell the social worker what is going on and turn it over to him or her.

Look at what you are going through right now. You can't sleep for worrying about transportation for her. Do you think she is worrying about it? No, she isn't. Why should she when you are doing the worrying for her.

I don't want it to sound like I am coming down on you. You are obviously a caring, loving friend to her. But you have to draw the line and now is the time to do it. Let her lose her job. Let her handle the rental situation. Let her worry about the lack of money. Any money she has she will spend on alcohol before food, anyway. She is not going to start taking care of herself until she hits bottom and even then she may not.

You are beating your head against a stone wall. You are the one who will bleed. She won't as long as she can get booze. And she WILL get booze. Trust me on that.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I wish you the best of luck. I wish her the best of luck. But, I wish it to both of you separately. I'm also concerned about the pets. I saw an episode on Intervention this week that involved a woman with two cats. Her bottom was the loss of her cats. That is what made her see the light and agree to go away for help. One never knows what the event will be that causes a light to go on in an addict/alcoholic's mind. Everyone's bottom is different. Remember that alcohol is her best friend. She loves it more than she loves anything or anyone in this world. She will drain you. For your own survival and well being you cannot let that happen.
Ketabcha, I am afraid you have hit the nail on the head. She WILL take me as far down as I let her so I am not going to let her. I told her roommate that I need to back off from this whole situation for my health. He understood.

Come to find my friend is lying and manipulating all of us. She came home from the hospital and lied to her friend that the hospital nurse told her to drink until she could see her Dr. No hospital is going to do this when someone has ended up in the hospital because of drinking. She is doing this weird triangulation thing with all of us and I got sucked into it, I am afraid. I am not used to having to deal with something like this.

The pets will be fine, no matter what happens. I need to bow away completely from this whole situation for my own health and that is just what I am doing. Her roommate says he'll walk before he watches her implode. There will go her ride to and from work. Oh well, she'll just manipulate her caretaker into it, I imagine. Nothing comes for free from these people.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
15,637 posts, read 14,692,108 times
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Good for you! What you are doing will be painful but it will certainly be less painful than enabling her in the long run.

It is very hard to do what you are going to do. Alcoholics/addicts know how to work people to get their substance of choice and to get their way. They know who the "soft targets" are.

They can be skilled liars. They are a scary bunch because they can hit you at all levels and they know which buttons to push. They have a disease and that disease can kill more than just the alcoholic.

Keep in mind always that she will get to the point where she will do or say anything to get you back as an enabler. Watch for it and recognize what it is: a horrible game that wrecks innocent lives. She is lucky to have you as a friend but she won't care about that. She wants what she wants and she will do anything she can to get it. She's addicted and the addiction is her lover and friend. There is no room for anyone else.

Bless your heart. You are in for a rough patch but you can do it. You must do it for your own health.

Best of luck. You have friends out here who care about you.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:44 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,848,534 times
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Best of luck movin'on. Stay strong.

Even harder than being a friend is the letting go when we finally accept we cannot make a difference for those we care about who will not help themselves. It is sometimes difficult to walk away from so much time and effort invested in trying to help someone.

You are doing the right thing. And, I think you will recognize this when you find yourself in a healthy friendship in which you are not being pulled into an emotional sinkhole. You will find that good friends are blessings and your heart is lighter for their presence.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:32 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,154,156 times
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Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Best of luck movin'on. Stay strong.

Even harder than being a friend is the letting go when we finally accept we cannot make a difference for those we care about who will not help themselves. It is sometimes difficult to walk away from so much time and effort invested in trying to help someone.

You are doing the right thing. And, I think you will recognize this when you find yourself in a healthy friendship in which you are not being pulled into an emotional sinkhole. You will find that good friends are blessings and your heart is lighter for their presence.
Thanks, lifelongMOgal,

The sad thing is I think I could still make a difference. I feel like a bad friend for pulling away. I feel like this makes me the kind of person who is not there in a friend's time of need.

Having said this, I'm angry I got sucked into things and that whole triangulation thing was/is for the birds. And I bought into it hook, line and sinker thinking my friend was the one who was being used by people. Maybe part of it is true. All I know is now those people must take care of her. She got her caretaker to buy her the booze and I am just out of it. I am sad things went down this way, but I won't end up crazy myself over the whole thing. I should have seen the writing on the wall...

Yesterday I discovered another friend was in the hospital for alcoholic seizures. Well, I just spoke to her on the phone. She didn't think she was in detox but was not sure. I think she might have been embarrassed so I didn't talk long at all. I just told her to keep me posted. Aye, aye, aye. I just don't know what to do.

I've discovered there is a fine line between helping someone and becoming part of the problem.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:47 AM
ttz
 
Location: Western WA
679 posts, read 1,461,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
Th
I've discovered there is a fine line between helping someone and becoming part of the problem.
It all depends on the person. If they accept your help, it's help! If they do not, you are contributing to the problem! Thats when you just back off and let the chips fall where they may.
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