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Old 01-15-2010, 05:26 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,511,655 times
Reputation: 10324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Can't prove it "ABSOLUTELY," huh? Don't feel too badly; no one else has ever met that challenge either.

In any case, the point isn't that cigarettes are safe. Of course they aren't. Neither are a lot of things, but nobody is on a crusade against every other cause of death. Sure, there are crusades against some other causes, but none rise to the level of panic and fear that smoking generates. Why? What makes people so afraid of cigarettes, but not in such a sweat over any of the other million causes of death?

It's because cigarettes are the cause du jour, the latest favorite of the fear mongers who play on our natural aversion to death. That campaign has little to do with health and much to do with money, power, influence and control. Want proof? Ask yourself why cigarettes haven't just been banned outright. If they're THAT dangerous, surely they could be outlawed. But, they haven't been and that's your clue. Instead, they've become a major source of revenue for all levels of government and, worse, an accepted excuse to increase government involvement in our personal lives.

And you fell for it! Your fear of death has let you be manipulated into not only supporting higher taxes and increased government intrusion upon our basic liberty of free choice, you've even gone so far as to disparage and look down on your fellow citizens for exercising the same freedom of choice which you, yourself, practice. Worse, having succeeded in creating a panic over tobacco, the fear merchants are now going after "unhealthy" foods and I suspect you'll support that too, right?

Yes, people have probably died from the direct effects of smoking or gluttony or booze or drugs, but they've died from a million other causes too. Can we be made safe from all of them? Will we eventually come to the point that we've surrendered so much freedom and so much money that we'll be protected from all forms of death? No, that day will never come. We will all die. Period.

So, it seems to me that instead of spending a lifetime worrying about how I'll die, instead of denying myself a good bit of what makes life fun and enjoyable to only die from something else, instead of living in angst and worry about things over which I have no control, I think I'll just keep smoking and eating what I like.

Life is too short my friend. We only go around once and that's a very, very brief window of time. The Bible says life is like a mist which disappears when the sun comes up and that's the fact of it. Instead of worrying about how it ends, how about enjoying every day of it and doing what Solomon suggested in Ecclesiasties: Love God, keep His Commandments and do good works. Forget the rest of it.

While you're over there in a smoke-free restaurant choking down tofu and brussel sprouts, analyzing the data from your last physical ("Uh oh. Cholesterol is up!"), counting the pills your doctor gave you and worrying that you'll get to the gym on time, I'll be next door laid back with a greasy BBQ sandwich, lard-fried potatoes, drinking cold beer and smoking cigarettes on the outside patio.

And you know what? Statistically, we'll both die from some cause completely unrelated to either my carelessness or your diligence.

More ridiculous rationalizations.....the last last bastion of defense for the committed smoker....

I loved this line:

"Yes, people have probably died from the direct effects of smoking or gluttony or booze or drugs"......PROBABLY


As to what I was supposed to have proven???


Prove WHAT absolutely??? That I am not "likely" to die tomorrow?? Can't do it....but statistically its not likely...check any life insurance table.....the longer you live, the longer you are likely to live.

But.....lifestyle choices most certainly have consequences....

You keep prattling on about things "over which you have no control"....

You know what, EVERY smoker has control over that next cigarette they CHOOSE to light.....and there ARE consequences from that DECISION...

Will EVERY smoker get lung cancer??

No....

Will EVERY smoker get COPD??

No....

But MANY will get these and other diseases DIRECTLY attributable to their CHOICE to smoke....

Fine, you have chosen to roll the dice and hope it comes up sevens....maybe you live to a ripe old age and die in your sleep.....or maybe you spend the last years of your life slowly wasting away, hooked up to oxygen, a trach in your throat and pain you can't even imagine from bony metastases.....

I've been working in hospitals for close to 30 years now....I've seen death come in many forms

I've seen a 33 yo mother of 3 who smoked from the time she was 12 lose half her face to oral cancer before succombing after dozens of painful surgeries....

I've seen 60 yo men die face down coughing up cupfuls of bloody sputum at a time....

I've worked in a large VA hospital when smoking was still allowed indoors and seen wards of men with trachs in their throats puffing through their trachs....

I have YET to see one person after being diagnosed with lung CA, oral CA or COPD REJOICE over their DECISION to smoke....

By the way, you are wrong in your conclusion....

Statistically, 2/3 of smokers die from causes directly attributable to their smoking....so statisically it is VERY LIKELY you will die from a cause directly related to your carelessness....

 
Old 01-15-2010, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,957 posts, read 17,019,090 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
More ridiculous rationalizations.....the last last bastion of defense for the committed smoker....

I loved this line:

"Yes, people have probably died from the direct effects of smoking or gluttony or booze or drugs"......PROBABLY


As to what I was supposed to have proven???


Prove WHAT absolutely??? That I am not "likely" to die tomorrow?? Can't do it....but statistically its not likely...check any life insurance table.....the longer you live, the longer you are likely to live.

But.....lifestyle choices most certainly have consequences....

You keep prattling on about things "over which you have no control"....

You know what, EVERY smoker has control over that next cigarette they CHOOSE to light.....and there ARE consequences from that DECISION...

Will EVERY smoker get lung cancer??

No....

Will EVERY smoker get COPD??

No....

But MANY will get these and other diseases DIRECTLY attributable to their CHOICE to smoke....

Fine, you have chosen to roll the dice and hope it comes up sevens....maybe you live to a ripe old age and die in your sleep.....or maybe you spend the last years of your life slowly wasting away, hooked up to oxygen, a trach in your throat and pain you can't even imagine from bony metastases.....

I've been working in hospitals for close to 30 years now....I've seen death come in many forms

I've seen a 33 yo mother of 3 who smoked from the time she was 12 lose half her face to oral cancer before succombing after dozens of painful surgeries....

I've seen 60 yo men die face down coughing up cupfuls of bloody sputum at a time....

I've worked in a large VA hospital when smoking was still allowed indoors and seen wards of men with trachs in their throats puffing through their trachs....

I have YET to see one person after being diagnosed with lung CA, oral CA or COPD REJOICE over their DECISION to smoke....

By the way, you are wrong in your conclusion....

Statistically, 2/3 of smokers die from causes directly attributable to their smoking....so statisically it is VERY LIKELY you will die from a cause directly related to your carelessness....
While this post prattles on about "ridiculous rationalizations" it ignores the simple fact that any adult worth their salt will defend their choices against all odds or the assailants that seek to take the right to make these choices away. It doesn't matter if you made a choice that is yours to make yet still these people aggrandize their right to take that choice from you anyway they can.

This post claims to be by a nurse with years of experience and I respect that but that does not provide the right to demean another adults life choices even if that life choice harms. Ya got one life and the right to live it as you please. Period.

If you die from that choice then so be it. If not then you weren't supposed to but it's still YOUR choice to make without others input.
 
Old 01-17-2010, 03:21 PM
 
8,415 posts, read 34,352,672 times
Reputation: 6197
Yeh anyway...enjoy the experiement smokies! It did not take out my gramp until he was 81. But they said the black lung could of been from coal mine work too. I just ask to not do dumb things that smokers do like:

smoke under people's windows...WHY? We all know where it goes! Up and inside

Don't smoke in a home with babies,small kids. They say 2nd hand can cause SIDS/ and lung damage just as smoking can. I think if you have a choice, you should give a kid/other person a right to have a choice too.

And clean out your ashtrays...Nothing is worse than a nasty dirty old ashtray sitting around.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,957 posts, read 17,019,090 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitt_transplant View Post
Yeh anyway...enjoy the experiement smokies! It did not take out my gramp until he was 81. But they said the black lung could of been from coal mine work too. I just ask to not do dumb things that smokers do like:

smoke under people's windows...WHY? We all know where it goes! Up and inside

Don't smoke in a home with babies,small kids. They say 2nd hand can cause SIDS/ and lung damage just as smoking can. I think if you have a choice, you should give a kid/other person a right to have a choice too.

And clean out your ashtrays...Nothing is worse than a nasty dirty old ashtray sitting around.
Even tho I smoke a pipe I agree full that any/every smoker should be aware of their surroundings enough to respect others right not to breath or smell the remains of smoking activity.

As an example of doing this most pipe smokers have what we call a "man cave" where we enjoy our pipe in peace while offending no one by disrespecting their personal air space. Cigarette smokers ,on the other hand, often fail to show this same level of respect for others air space.

Showing respect for others is just plain good manners be it a non-smoker or a smoker.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 08:24 PM
 
5,905 posts, read 5,082,586 times
Reputation: 4534
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitt_transplant View Post
Yeh anyway...enjoy the experiement smokies! It did not take out my gramp until he was 81. But they said the black lung could of been from coal mine work too.
Well of COURSE black lung could have been caused from coal...black lung is synonymous with 'coal workers' pneumoconiosis' (ICD-9-CM code 500). They're directly related. I code for several hospitals in coal-mining states, where black lung can occur within the first 5 years of exposure, in patients in their mid-20s. Patients, I might add, who often do not smoke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitt_transplant View Post
Don't smoke in a home with babies,small kids. They say 2nd hand can cause SIDS/ and lung damage just as smoking can.
LOL! "They" (read: the ignoramuses who are seemingly paid to scare the bejeezus out of the American public with junk science 'statistics') have never found solid links between SIDS and second-hand smoke...or parental depression...or putting babies to sleep on their stomachs/backs/sides (trust me, the 'leading expert advice' on that gem changes about every decade)...or anything else. They've been grasping at the same straws for the cause of SIDS as they are to blame second-hand smoke on a myriad of ailments that healthcare professionals like myself have simply never seen in thousands of cases from across this country.

Not one. Not for SIDS, not for second-hand smoke.

But...the gullible public will continue (with pathetic, clueless determination) to grab onto the latest junk statistic/junk 'link' and join the masses of hypnotized hypochondriacs.

Panic without a cause.
 
Old 01-18-2010, 10:26 PM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,511,655 times
Reputation: 10324
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
Well of COURSE black lung could have been caused from coal...black lung is synonymous with 'coal workers' pneumoconiosis' (ICD-9-CM code 500). They're directly related. I code for several hospitals in coal-mining states, where black lung can occur within the first 5 years of exposure, in patients in their mid-20s. Patients, I might add, who often do not smoke.



LOL! "They" (read: the ignoramuses who are seemingly paid to scare the bejeezus out of the American public with junk science 'statistics') have never found solid links between SIDS and second-hand smoke...or parental depression...or putting babies to sleep on their stomachs/backs/sides (trust me, the 'leading expert advice' on that gem changes about every decade)...or anything else. They've been grasping at the same straws for the cause of SIDS as they are to blame second-hand smoke on a myriad of ailments that healthcare professionals like myself have simply never seen in thousands of cases from across this country.

Not one. Not for SIDS, not for second-hand smoke.

But...the gullible public will continue (with pathetic, clueless determination) to grab onto the latest junk statistic/junk 'link' and join the masses of hypnotized hypochondriacs.

Panic without a cause.
It seems to me the "ignoramuses" would be the ones that characterize "good" science as "junk" science and continue to delude themselves about the significant evidence linking tobacco exposure and SIDS...

Please....enlighten us all with the "hard" science debunking these studies...


"Studies in rats suggest that tobacco toxin exposure is the leading cause of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS)."
What is third-hand smoke? Is it hazardous?: Scientific American

"Secondhand smoke must be recognized as an established, controllable risk factor for SIDS, like prone sleep positioning,"

Read more: Tobacco Industry Smokescreen Obscured Links Between Second-Hand Smoke and SIDS


Maternal smoking impairs arousal patterns in sleep... [Sleep. 2009] - PubMed result


Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and parental smoking
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and parental smoking. [Early Hum Dev. 2007] - PubMed result
 
Old 01-19-2010, 06:14 AM
 
7,079 posts, read 33,750,614 times
Reputation: 4005
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