U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-27-2010, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,027,829 times
Reputation: 7701

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVSnyc View Post
Governor Paterson should back off the soda. It is not the source of the obesity problem. Inferior physical and nutritional education, which of course leads to poor exercise habits and ill-advised diets, are the cause of inflated waistlines. Having a salad with a Coke is far better then a bottle of water to wash down a face full of dirty water dogs. Add walking up the stairs instead of taking the elevator and you’re golden.

Why target soda with an extra tax? Isn’t the sale tax we all pay on all the food we purchase enough of a burden?

I advocate the responsible use of governmental powers, both in taxation and implementation of programs. Why target soda with an extra tax? Isn’t the sale tax we all pay on all the food we purchase enough of a burden? Will a soda tax really do anything to curb obesity?

It offends me that some politician is planning to tax my freedom of choice in the name of a problem he will do nothing to solve. The evaluation of Governor Paterson’s soda tax really comes down to one question. How much of those soda tax dollars will fund physical exercise programs vs. pet projects to keep the politicians in office?

Soda companies, like Coke, are a living piece of Americana. Coca-Cola is an American company that works, unlike some industries that beg our government for a bailout. From the factory workers to the bodega owners, soda companies generate income for people in various communities.

I like Coke as a product and a company. Coca-Cola was the first major American company to be head by a minority, a Hispanic. Next time you admire a Norman Rockwell painting or have your child sitting on Santa's lap, thank Coke. As a charitable company, Coca-Cola has given millions in donations and supplies in times of crisis, like the recent disaster in Haiti. Heck, a man trapped in a collapsed convenience store in Haiti survived thanks to a supply of Coke. The Cold War thankfully was not won with tanks, guns and nukes, but with a cheeseburger and a Coca-Cola.

Now are you beginning to understand why we smokers have urged everyone else to join us in opposing such "health" related tyranny?

The chickens are coming home to roost, aren't they?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-27-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
1,860 posts, read 4,337,158 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Now are you beginning to understand why we smokers have urged everyone else to join us in opposing such "health" related tyranny?

The chickens are coming home to roost, aren't they?
The problem is, is that health care whether it be through insurance or medicare, is all interdependent. Meaning, we all throw our money into the pool, and as someone needs it, they take it out.

For example, if we have 100 people throwing $1,000 into the pool a year, and everyone needs are met w/that $100,000, everything's great; problem is, if 90 of us do just fine w/basic medical care and are relatively healthy (say a physical and a couple other visits a year max) and say only need like $500 worth of that coverage, but the other 10 are smokers, obese, alcholics, etc. and let's say 3 or 4 of them have strokes or heart attacks costing $25,000 each for their healthcare. UH-OH! Pool's not full enough, so now we all have to throw in another $500 each the next year to make-up the costs. I know it's more complicated than that, but essentially, this is how it works.

As long as I have to pay for your choice to smoke, overeat, etc., these types of 'sin taxes' are going to exist and I have no problem with them existing. We should have cigarette taxes to assure that one day when a smoker has lung cancer, they've paid their share to provide the necessary health-care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2010, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,027,829 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
The problem is, is that health care whether it be through insurance or medicare, is all interdependent. Meaning, we all throw our money into the pool, and as someone needs it, they take it out.

For example, if we have 100 people throwing $1,000 into the pool a year, and everyone needs are met w/that $100,000, everything's great; problem is, if 90 of us do just fine w/basic medical care and are relatively healthy (say a physical and a couple other visits a year max) and say only need like $500 worth of that coverage, but the other 10 are smokers, obese, alcholics, etc. and let's say 3 or 4 of them have strokes or heart attacks costing $25,000 each for their healthcare. UH-OH! Pool's not full enough, so now we all have to throw in another $500 each the next year to make-up the costs. I know it's more complicated than that, but essentially, this is how it works.

As long as I have to pay for your choice to smoke, overeat, etc., these types of 'sin taxes' are going to exist and I have no problem with them existing. We should have cigarette taxes to assure that one day when a smoker has lung cancer, they've paid their share to provide the necessary health-care.

We all indulge in some sort of risky behaviors, all our health care costs come out of those pools regardless of how "healthily" we live and we all die, so assigning dollar values to the risk as a justifcation for higher taxes and more intrusive government is dishonest at best and judgmental at worst.

Addtionally, I would ask the same question I've asked before to highlight the inanity of using that excuse:

Since about half of all smokers have quit over the past few decades, have you gotten a refund on your taxes or a reduction in either your tax rate or insurance premiums to compensate for that? The answer is, of course, no..so what's the point of all those behavior modification taxes, rules and laws?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
1,860 posts, read 4,337,158 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
We all indulge in some sort of risky behaviors, all our health care costs come out of those pools regardless of how "healthily" we live and we all die, so assigning dollar values to the risk as a justifcation for higher taxes and more intrusive government is dishonest at best and judgmental at worst.

Addtionally, I would ask the same question I've asked before to highlight the inanity of using that excuse:

Since about half of all smokers have quit over the past few decades, have you gotten a refund on your taxes or a reduction in either your tax rate or insurance premiums to compensate for that? The answer is, of course, no..so what's the point of all those behavior modification taxes, rules and laws?
You do make some valid points. You could argue that what about the person who is promiscuous and has sex with a bunch of people and gets HIV and has to rely on expensive drugs to live for example. You're right in there are a lot of other 'risky' behaviors that people indulge in besides smoking.

You would appreciate our governor here in SC (even though most don't like him) as he has stood strong against our state raising the nation-wide low of $.07/pack cigarette tax unless the legislature offsets it with another tax reduction somewhere else - so he is trying to make what you question at the end happen!

The bottom line about 'sin' taxes are that when a majority of the people don't suffer, they pass. More people don't smoke than do, and of those people that don't, most (including myself) are repulsed by the smell of those who smoke those heaters. And given the choice between an overall sales tax increase and a cigarette tax increase, it's much easier to convince the public of the latter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2010, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,027,829 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
You do make some valid points. You could argue that what about the person who is promiscuous and has sex with a bunch of people and gets HIV and has to rely on expensive drugs to live for example. You're right in there are a lot of other 'risky' behaviors that people indulge in besides smoking.

You would appreciate our governor here in SC (even though most don't like him) as he has stood strong against our state raising the nation-wide low of $.07/pack cigarette tax unless the legislature offsets it with another tax reduction somewhere else - so he is trying to make what you question at the end happen!

The bottom line about 'sin' taxes are that when a majority of the people don't suffer, they pass. More people don't smoke than do, and of those people that don't, most (including myself) are repulsed by the smell of those who smoke those heaters. And given the choice between an overall sales tax increase and a cigarette tax increase, it's much easier to convince the public of the latter.

Of course it's easier to pass on a tax increase to someone else but, in the case of "health" taxes, they will ultimately bite everyone in the azz unless it's stopped and stopped soon. That will take joint action from us all, but I'm not optimistic about that happening. Too many people are too judgmental and too willing to see taxes raised on behaviors they don't personally like.

As for your state's cigarette taxes? As I understand it, they amount to just 7 cents a pack, which makes it economically attractive to drive to your state from just about anywhere in the nation to buy several months, or even a years worth of cigarettes. In states like NY or Texas or Arkansas or Louisiana or Georgia, the difference is a dollar a pack or more. For two smoker families, at a pack a day, that's more than enough to offset the cost of gasoline. Please urge your Governor and legislators to hold fast at that rate; they might actually make money by doing so!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2010, 12:32 PM
 
5 posts, read 5,248 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Now are you beginning to understand why we smokers have urged everyone else to join us in opposing such "health" related tyranny?

The chickens are coming home to roost, aren't they?
Does it matter if I came late? I am still at the party.

Tyranny is a good word for it, but there is better term for the type of government that engages in social interventionism. Starts with an F. I'll give you the liberty to guess as many times as you like, that is until they come to take me away for speaking out.

There is bad science supporting this bad tax. See… Doctors Poke Holes In Soda Tax Proposal

I feel better of about my caffeine supplier already. I swear I'd end up on a train to Jamaica without it in the mornings. Just wish Paterson wasn't asking me to pay more for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2010, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,027,829 times
Reputation: 7701
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVSnyc View Post
Does it matter if I came late? I am still at the party.

Tyranny is a good word for it, but there is better term for the type of government that engages in social interventionism. Starts with an F. I'll give you the liberty to guess as many times as you like, that is until they come to take me away for speaking out.

There is bad science supporting this bad tax. See… Doctors Poke Holes In Soda Tax Proposal

I feel better of about my caffeine supplier already. I swear I'd end up on a train to Jamaica without it in the mornings. Just wish Paterson wasn't asking me to pay more for it.

No, it doesn't matter. WELCOME ABOARD, MATE!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Health and Wellness
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top