Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Communist killed no more than Batista had in Cuba and less than conservatives did in Chile under Allende. For that matter Mao was likely no worse than the Nationalist under Chiang. He won the civil war there primarily because the Nationalist did such a woeful job when they were in power. People assume that Stalin's behavior was common in communist states, and that is not the case.
It is true that people forget how nasty Chiang's government was, mainly because Mao's was so much worse, not to mention how much death and destruction were wreaked by the Japanese.
Never mind that the Kuomintang were also modelled after the Bolsheviks. Ironically China today resembles Chiang's vision for China's future a great deal and bears very little resemblance to Mao's vision for China's future. Chiang also believed in a highly authoritarian state with "state capitalism" and with heavy industrial development, in contrast to Mao's authoritarianism. If Chiang had won the civil war, China would have prospered long before it actually did.
If anything Mao's behavior was even worse than Stalin's, if you look at the total body count. Mao was a thoroughly depraved individual who was probably the biggest pedophile of all time (mainly because no other pedo had life or death power over 600 million plus people) and, although a brilliant military strategist, embarked upon policies which greatly hurt China.
Its fair to say that I have never read any historical account that supports your last post majoun. Mao killed relatively few people deliberately, economic disruptions in a very densely populated country led to a a high death toll. Stalin was serveral orders of magnitude different in his represion than the chinese communist, who were broadly popular as a result in China. Chiang was likely worse in his treatment of the peasent, for which he cared absolutely nothing at all.
That is why the peasents overwhelmingly supported the communist and chiang lost despite massive US support.
Its fair to say that I have never read any historical account that supports your last post majoun. Mao killed relatively few people deliberately, economic disruptions in a very densely populated country led to a a high death toll.
Chiang's victims: about 6.5 million (I knew his government was quite nasty, but I didn't know there were THAT many deaths)
Victims of Japanese war crimes in China: about 19 million
Mao's victims: 3.5 million during the civil war, 15 million in the "Anti Rightist Struggle", 30 million in the Great Leap Forward, 7 million in the Cultural Revolution = 55.5 million
Stalin's victims: 5 million in the collectivization of agriculture in the late 1920s, 5 million in the famines of 1932-33, 2 million in labor camps from 1929-53, 10 million in the Terror, 1 million in WW2= 23 million (at the time of Stalin's death he was planning to exterminate Russia's Jewish population, which fortunately did not occur)
And this isn't even counting those who weren't killed.
So, Mao killed over twice as many people as Stalin. And over four times as many as Chiang.
Quote:
Stalin was serveral orders of magnitude different in his represion than the chinese communist, who were broadly popular as a result in China.
No argument from me about how evil Stalin was.
Quote:
Chiang was likely worse in his treatment of the peasent, for which he cared absolutely nothing at all.
What Mao did to China's peasantry during the Great Leap Forward was far worse than anything Chiang did, as bad as Chiang was.
Quote:
That is why the peasents overwhelmingly supported the communist and chiang lost despite massive US support.
Chiang was more unlucky and his government had serious problems with corruption, and wasn't able to deal with the challenges he had to face.
"On the mainland, Chiang is now widely regarded as a Chinese patriot who made valuable contributions to the modern nation. Moreover..the leaders in Beijing have looked to Taiwan as a model for what a prosperous and free Chinese society might be like. And as China sheds its Maoist legacy, rendering the Chairman's rule a three-decade aberration, even mainstream Chinese scholars are suggesting that the country might have been better off had Chiang triumphed in 1949.
"Perhaps Chiang has emerged victorious after all. For surely today's China resembles his vision more closely than it does Mao's. "
Refugees??? Good Lord, talk to refugees from Norway, and and ask them how fine it is. Do you think a refugee is a reliable objective reporter of conditions in his former country?
Er...refugees...from Norway? Do you mean emigrants?
Chiang's victims: about 6.5 million (I knew his government was quite nasty, but I didn't know there were THAT many deaths)
Victims of Japanese war crimes in China: about 19 million
Mao's victims: 3.5 million during the civil war, 15 million in the "Anti Rightist Struggle", 30 million in the Great Leap Forward, 7 million in the Cultural Revolution = 55.5 million
Stalin's victims: 5 million in the collectivization of agriculture in the late 1920s, 5 million in the famines of 1932-33, 2 million in labor camps from 1929-53, 10 million in the Terror, 1 million in WW2= 23 million (at the time of Stalin's death he was planning to exterminate Russia's Jewish population, which fortunately did not occur)
And this isn't even counting those who weren't killed.
So, Mao killed over twice as many people as Stalin. And over four times as many as Chiang.
Even for a back of the envelope calculation this is terrible.
I haven't heard anything that indicated China was no longer Communist...and they're doing pretty well in the world.
If you seriously think China is communist, then you may want to look up the definition of communism. I can call my truck a horse if I choose, but that will not make it graze on grass and expel road apples.
Unfortunately many of these "_ _ _ ist" words are often used very loosely at best.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
