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Old 01-07-2013, 04:33 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,472,790 times
Reputation: 19593

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwomanhood111 View Post
You turn my stomach, these enslave people were condition into slaves. So the African Americans were wronged by the Union army who came to set them free? I don't know any African America who said the vile slave master was a nice person or slavery was a great solution. Slave is unnatural like child abuse if you condition a child that abuse is the right thing, it's will believe it's the norm. Many African American, escaped and fought with the Union army. I am unusual because my folks on my mother side came from the North, and fought against slavery. I never heard of any African American saying slavery was a good thing. Slavery mean no human rights, rape, child abuse, murder, etc. I hope you sign up to be a slave since you think slavery is such a good idea. This poor woman cook for you but never been your equal, if she talk out of term her life would be in danger. As millions of African Americans were killed for talking their minds. As soon as slavery was finish with 24 million African Americans left the South for the North or Canada. I don't believe any of those people stay around, Arkansas is one vile place also. Only reason Black people are in the south is because of Poverty. If all Blacks living in Jim Crow south was given the choice their leave the south years ago. If you give me billion and I was told I had to live in the South I prefer to be middle class and live in the decent North. The south is a black person HELL even today.

Please do not bother to waste your time because she will NEVER EVER "get it". The condescension in her posts regarding "black" people in general (and "black" women specifically) is very well documented.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,458,744 times
Reputation: 101034
Calipoppy, thanks for reminding me to put you on ignore. I meant to do so several days ago but went out of town. As soon as I finish typing this, you will join the very small ranks (only one other poster in the decade plus that I've been active on debate forums) of those I put on ignore long term.

Lest you be tempted to think it's because I can't handle your criticism, let me make myself clear - it's because discussing things with you is not edifying to me, or others. So I'll spare the forum any more discussions between you and me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,472,790 times
Reputation: 19593
I am just absolutely disgusted that someone has the audacity to take their slaveowning ancestors account of "happy darkies a'singin' in da fields" and apply it to what we know to be true about the real deplorable circumstances of American slavery.

Of course that person's ancestors will attempt to make it seem as if the conditions of slavery were beneficial to freedom. This is a boldfaced lie and an attempt to assuage their own role for denying other human beings their freedom. And the comment about sharecropping was just as insulting. Sharecropping was basically de facto slavery because the sharecroppers worked the same land that they worked as slaves, paid rent to their "previous" owners, and were often literally required to purchase necessities from their previous owners which ensured that they were perpetually indebted to their previous owners.

But I wouldn't expect the financial benefactors of such a system to actually "get it".
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
 
799 posts, read 1,091,854 times
Reputation: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwomanhood111 View Post
Stop lying about history, Slavery was a horrible time. I thank, all the Northern White men and free Black men who lay they life's down to see I am a free person today. I believe they are good White men and women, who fought to see my people free. I am a African American, 100% of Black women that had relationship with they southern white masters were RAPED. My Great Grandmothers NEVER, gave their bodies to their hated enemies, our Grand mother's life was worth nothing, in the slave system, raping our bodies was how we survivor it was a choice to live a next day. Slavery was about abuse, murder, rape and even child abuse. They are stories told by ex enslave women and men. It's about time you read it and STOP MAKING UP LIES.
As a black man to black woman I have to inform that the union wasn't fighting for your freedom, they was fighting for the fact they can basically privatize slavery and make slavery a business for the whole of America rather than let the wealth of slavery accumulate for southern white men. Please know that emancipation is not synonymous with independence, that's why the Tulsa race riot occurred, that's why black males in particular are in prison more so than any other person in America today, that's also the reason behind the Tuskegee experiments, and welfare especially notice how in slavery some slaves grew accustomed to their living off the slave owner and in present America as blacks are mostly still dependent upon the government one way or another, and that's because we are still slaves (more mental than physical) notice that during the civil rights movement it was more help from the government, then the black power movement(black economic/unity movement) and that was actually the number 1 threat against America not because we was on some terrorist **** but because we was gaining ground and making OURSELVES independent from the clenches of the government.

Peace and love to you sister I just wanted to inform ya on that
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,224 posts, read 84,144,315 times
Reputation: 114530
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodsofATL View Post
As a black man to black woman I have to inform that the union wasn't fighting for your freedom, they was fighting for the fact they can basically privatize slavery and make slavery a business for the whole of America rather than let the wealth of slavery accumulate for southern white men. Please know that emancipation is not synonymous with independence, that's why the Tulsa race riot occurred, that's why black males in particular are in prison more so than any other person in America today, that's also the reason behind the Tuskegee experiments, and welfare especially notice how in slavery some slaves grew accustomed to their living off the slave owner and in present America as blacks are mostly still dependent upon the government one way or another, and that's because we are still slaves (more mental than physical) notice that during the civil rights movement it was more help from the government, then the black power movement(black economic/unity movement) and that was actually the number 1 threat against America not because we was on some terrorist **** but because we was gaining ground and making OURSELVES independent from the clenches of the government.

Peace and love to you sister I just wanted to inform ya on that
While it's true that by and large most individuals in the Union Army weren't fighting so that free blacks could move in next door to them and be their bffs, there WERE a significant number of real abolitionists--black and white--in the years before the Civil War who were trying to get the message across that slavery was evil. Frederick Douglass and John Brown are probably the best well-known--one black and fighting slavery with words, the other white and fighting slavery with violence (and ironically in the end his words were what left the most lasting impact.) But there are others who were equally impressive at the time. Lydia Maria Childs, whom most people only know now as the woman who wrote the little song "Over the River and Through The Woods", if they even know that, wrote some of the most impressive anti-slavery literature of her time. Look her up, especially her "we don't sell the babies" letter to a slave-owning Virginia housewife.

One of the saddest parts of our history is that no one, especially in our government, had a well-thought out plan as to how to help the freed slaves step up to take a place in society when they were starting behind everyone else in education and opportunity, and that the Jim Crow laws were allowed to take root.

But there have always been shining stars speaking up against injustice, and that includes the abolitionists. Without them, slavery might have lasted even longer than it did in this country. It's just a shame, to me, that it's a part of history that often falls by the wayside.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,458,744 times
Reputation: 101034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
While it's true that by and large most individuals in the Union Army weren't fighting so that free blacks could move in next door to them and be their bffs, there WERE a significant number of real abolitionists--black and white--in the years before the Civil War who were trying to get the message across that slavery was evil. Frederick Douglass and John Brown are probably the best well-known--one black and fighting slavery with words, the other white and fighting slavery with violence (and ironically in the end his words were what left the most lasting impact.) But there are others who were equally impressive at the time. Lydia Maria Childs, whom most people only know now as the woman who wrote the little song "Over the River and Through The Woods", if they even know that, wrote some of the most impressive anti-slavery literature of her time. Look her up, especially her "we don't sell the babies" letter to a slave-owning Virginia housewife.

One of the saddest parts of our history is that no one, especially in our government, had a well-thought out plan as to how to help the freed slaves step up to take a place in society when they were starting behind everyone else in education and opportunity, and that the Jim Crow laws were allowed to take root.

But there have always been shining stars speaking up against injustice, and that includes the abolitionists. Without them, slavery might have lasted even longer than it did in this country. It's just a shame, to me, that it's a part of history that often falls by the wayside.
Have you ever read the book "Someone Knows My Name?" I think you would really like it. I couldn't put it down.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:23 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,950,999 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
While it's true that by and large most individuals in the Union Army weren't fighting so that free blacks could move in next door to them and be their bffs, there WERE a significant number of real abolitionists--black and white--in the years before the Civil War who were trying to get the message across that slavery was evil.
I hasten to mention that there were also very strong abolitionist within Lincoln's cabinet, such as Salmon Chase, William Seward, and the most radical of them all, Rep. Thaddeous Stevens whose views not only on slavery but black equality would have made him right at home in the administration of Kennedy or Lyndon (not Andrew) Johnson. And there were others, Gen David Hunter, John C. Fremont, Benjamin Butler, Chamberlain, and Colonel Robert Gould Shaw just to name a tiny few of those who did lead the war against slavery as much as maintaing the union.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,193,158 times
Reputation: 16937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I hasten to mention that there were also very strong abolitionist within Lincoln's cabinet, such as Salmon Chase, William Seward, and the most radical of them all, Rep. Thaddeous Stevens whose views not only on slavery but black equality would have made him right at home in the administration of Kennedy or Lyndon (not Andrew) Johnson. And there were others, Gen David Hunter, John C. Fremont, Benjamin Butler, Chamberlain, and Colonel Robert Gould Shaw just to name a tiny few of those who did lead the war against slavery as much as maintaing the union.
And then there were the military leaders who found the newly uncontrolled slaves who followed the armies to be a huge problem, since they were hungry and the army could barely feed their own. Some of the generals had no interest in freeing slaves, just stopping the rebellion. That the slaves leaving their plantations meant further disruption for the southern cause was a plus. That they followed the armies was a often a hinderance to the war as they got in the way. It wasn't until later in the war that freed slaves were used as part of the war itself.

The real truth is that even those who supported abolition had never really planned what to do with the freed slaves, and thus largely they were left to be used by the inevitable users who would follow.

There is a new series on PBS called the Abolitionists, three parts. The first was very interesting, especially the diversity in approach, from the ultra radical who believed if blacks weren't allowed to vote they wouldn't either to those with more practical ideas. But what (so far at least) none had really though of was what happened to the individuals themselves after.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:37 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 36,950,999 times
Reputation: 15038
[quote=nightbird47;27728138]
The real truth is that even those who supported abolition had never really planned what to do with the freed slaves, and thus largely they were left to be used by the inevitable users who would follow. [.quote]

Since the war itself wasn't exactly all that "planned" I don't think that it is surprising that the federal didn't have a "plan" of what to do with the freed slaves, just as there was never a "plan" regarding whether there would even be an end to slavery. As for the abolitionist, there were "plans", in fact as many plans as their were abolitionist who didn't all share the same idea about what was to be done.

Quote:
There is a new series on PBS called the Abolitionists, three parts.
It is indeed a great series.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,458,744 times
Reputation: 101034
Some abolitionists, including Lincoln, had a plan. Liberia.
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