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Beginning with the Battle of the Phillipines,where U.S. and Filipino troops provide the only bright spot in an otherwise dismal six months of war.American competency increased logarythmically.There exist no part of europe which western ground forces could have a decisive effect until sealift capacity was built up,and the U Boats brought to heel,until then our bombing efforts had to keep Stalin happy,it didn't.North Africa provided an excellent proving/disproving ground for tactics and training methods,and also for force compositions,armored divisions proved too tank heavy,tank destroyers became more "assault gun" formations,air/ground coordinations were concieved,competent generals were found.By early 1945,the U.S. Army was a blooded veteran organization,and second to none in the "Operational Art".
I assumed everyone on here would know I meant after Stalingrad, my fault for being lazy.
IMHO any Marine Div. was worth 3 Army ones, but I could be prejudiced.
In any event, the USA dilly and dallied against the Germans but got right down to business in the Pacific.
Well, as a Marine veteran, I won't dispute your comment, but no one in the Allied High Command was anxious to take on the German Army by direct assault in Northern France in 1942. Gen. Marshall pushed for a landing in 1943, which thankfully did not take place.
Certainly, overall US strategy was the Pacific first; it was definitely in more of a crisis mode in early 1942, with the Fall of the Phillipines, and Australia being threatened.
Unquestionably, IMHO, the German Wehrmacht was by far the best led, most professional, and most formidable military in WWII.
Well, as a Marine veteran, I won't dispute your comment, but no one in the Allied High Command was anxious to take on the German Army by direct assault in Northern France in 1942. Gen. Marshall pushed for a landing in 1943, which thankfully did not take place.
Certainly, overall US strategy was the Pacific first; it was definitely in more of a crisis mode in early 1942, with the Fall of the Phillipines, and Australia being threatened.
Unquestionably, IMHO, the German Wehrmacht was by far the best led, most professional, and most formidable military in WWII.
After the July '44 plot against Hitler,generals were promoted exclusively based on loyalty to the Furher.Despite some excellent weapons (MP-43,the worlds first assault rifle,MG-42 machine gun with its phenominal cyclic firing rate,Panther tank and Me-262 jet fighter) by mid '43 they were unable to rebuild destroyed formations,instead lavishing equipment on elite formations,which were used as fire brigades to plug holes after wornout formations caved.Uneven performance from a dying army.
Well, as a Marine veteran, I won't dispute your comment, but no one in the Allied High Command was anxious to take on the German Army by direct assault in Northern France in 1942. Gen. Marshall pushed for a landing in 1943, which thankfully did not take place.
Certainly, overall US strategy was the Pacific first; it was definitely in more of a crisis mode in early 1942, with the Fall of the Phillipines, and Australia being threatened.
Unquestionably, IMHO, the German Wehrmacht was by far the best led, most professional, and most formidable military in WWII.
Of course not and the Wehrmacht was all that.
My point is that they would have done that, and whatever else it took, had the they not been sure the Russians would get the job done.
Beginning with the Battle of the Phillipines,where U.S. and Filipino troops provide the only bright spot in an otherwise dismal six months of war.American competency increased logarythmically.There exist no part of europe which western ground forces could have a decisive effect until sealift capacity was built up,and the U Boats brought to heel,until then our bombing efforts had to keep Stalin happy,it didn't.North Africa provided an excellent proving/disproving ground for tactics and training methods,and also for force compositions,armored divisions proved too tank heavy,tank destroyers became more "assault gun" formations,air/ground coordinations were concieved,competent generals were found.By early 1945,the U.S. Army was a blooded veteran organization,and second to none in the "Operational Art".
Thats the standard US version, true or not impossible to say as we can't run an experiment, can we.
I would take issue with the US army ever being anywhere near the state of the operational art. The American obsession with careerism has always hampered our military greatly.
Thats the standard US version, true or not impossible to say as we can't run an experiment, can we.
I would take issue with the US army ever being anywhere near the state of the operational art. The American obsession with careerism has always hampered our military greatly.
Please then,show me a campaign in which the Germans prevailed? Or are we going to fall back on the old "material superiority ensured success" argument.Instead,it was victory via small increments,huge leapfrogs and incredible logistic feats.Improvisation,ingenuity and sound generalship by U.S. forces was what won the day.
Please then,show me a campaign in which the Germans prevailed? Or are we going to fall back on the old "material superiority ensured success" argument.Instead,it was victory via small increments,huge leapfrogs and incredible logistic feats.Improvisation,ingenuity and sound generalship by U.S. forces was what won the day.
Show me an instance where the smartest, most skilled welterweight fighter that ever lived, with greatest manger and corner of all time, would have prevailed against Ali in his prime.
Please then,show me a campaign in which the Germans prevailed? Or are we going to fall back on the old "material superiority ensured success" argument.Instead,it was victory via small increments,huge leapfrogs and incredible logistic feats.Improvisation,ingenuity and sound generalship by U.S. forces was what won the day.
Time and again the Germans fought the US to a standstill WITHOUT an airforce while ours tore them up.
They would have won the Battle of the Bulge if they had our air superiority.
At Monte Casino US Infantry could not prevail even with massive air and artillery.It took Polish Light Infantry armed with Lee-Enfields and a do or die
spirit, helped by a kiwi assault that almost made it ,to drive the Germans off the mountain.
I figured it was the Russians losing millions, and causing the loss of Millions that won the day.
Actually I'd like to edit this comment, The more I read regarding WW2 the more I start to see that with a conflict of this scale no one thing can be looked upon as the tide changer. Mostly lots of what ifs. My opinion is that each of the 3 main allies contributed greatly (along with others) and each axis Germany/Japan also did the best they could. Its just such a complex thing and it really was total war. During it I doubt anyone really knew how to truely win, each country I'd figure was pretty much learning on the go.
A lot of truth in what you say, but I'd still say Stalingrad was the tide-turner.Would not say you are wrong though.
Last edited by BigCur; 07-22-2010 at 04:03 PM..
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, but no one in the Allied High Command was anxious to take on the German Army by direct assault in Northern France in 1942. Gen. Marshall pushed for a landing in 1943, which thankfully did not take place.
