Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,174,825 times
Reputation: 16936

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Oh, I don't think it would be a bad thing at all. I have formulated an idea much like this myself. What I challenge is the idea that this would promote unity. I don't think it would; it might promote other good things, but the only thing that I can imagine promoting unity in the United States, absent a wildly popular armed revolution, would be a national cultural decision to stop being such a$$holes to one another about politics (and religion, while we are at it), and to begin to care more about the overall benefit to the nation than having one's own crew able to ram through one's own agenda. And we will not get that--the culture of political a$$holosity is too deeply rooted in our thought now. There is not only no sincere sense of bipartisanship, but the side with less power is prone to view any attempt at same as a show of weakness, to be pounced on without mercy.

If you and I are neighbors, and we don't get along too well and have very differing desires for how things should go along our fence and in matters that affect one another, if every time you try and compromise with me, all I ever do is assume you must be weakening and that this is my moment to strike for everything I can squeeze from you, you will stop trying to compromise with me. And any time I'm the initiator of the compromise, you will likely distrust my motives and negotiate strictly for your own benefit, because that's how I treated you. The cycle defends itself against ever ending--and meanwhile, whatever matters required some sort of adult discussion to resolve will go unaddressed, because neither of us were capable of adult discussion. And even when one of us tried to be, the other torpedoed it. America 2010: the culture of political a$$holosity.
I agree entierly. I think some exposure to reality might make kids think in more practical terms which might guide them to think without so many agendas but there is no guarentee. At least they might learn to think in terms of real life which would be a huge plus.

And those agendas... check out the thread about removing the 6 million Muslems that "nobody wants" in Politics. Its currently at 22 pages. The good thing is that at least half the participants are arguing in reality which doesn't always happen. I have a friend who agrees and we discuss this a lot. You go from point a to b to c to d and it makes such perfect sense to your agenda. That means that if someone agrees with a they automatically must agree with b, c, and d. NOT. Personally I call myself an Eclectic.

If we can't find someway of teaching our kids to think for themselves, listen for what someone is really saying and use some logic in the mix, I fear for them and the future. Right now sometimes it seems like the sheep are winning, or is it the sheepherders?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2010, 03:15 PM
 
2,673 posts, read 3,236,478 times
Reputation: 1996
I've asked what is 'American culture" many times in forums. To tell the truth, I don't know what is distinctly American. Friday night football games? Baseball? Picnics? Going to the lake on Labor Day?

A few things make America distinct from most countries: 1) It's a country formed of immigrants from across the globe; and 2) landwise, we're vast, so cultural distinctions vary by region.

I'm Native American of the Mvskoke (aka, Muscogee Creek) Tribe. We have ceremonies and cultural practices that pre-date the formation of America by many hundreds of years, as do all of the tribes in the U.S.

I'm sincerely curious as to what things you consider to be distinct American culture? Other than getting a drivers license at 16, what are those things that are 'passage of rite'? We have sweet sixteen parties, which I guess could be sort of like the Mexican girls' have La Quinceanera. (ugg, there should be a tilde above the 'n')

I also see many things in the American West that are distinctly American, but not all Americans. I live in Oklahoma; have lived in Montana and in Washington. Believe me, Cowboys and Indians is American. I love the American West. That is ours; all American.

If you don't think there are things that are distinctly American then why is that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,560 posts, read 14,403,369 times
Reputation: 10164
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
If we can't find someway of teaching our kids to think for themselves, listen for what someone is really saying and use some logic in the mix, I fear for them and the future. Right now sometimes it seems like the sheep are winning, or is it the sheepherders?
Kids only fail to learn to think for themselves when parents, who may not know how to question assumptions themselves, a) do not teach them, and b) interfere with any attempt by schools to teach them. "Don't you dare teach my precious little Brittany that she might be descended from monkeys! That's against God, and if you go against God you will never have any peace from me--I will f*** you up!" In the end, it's easier for schools to just knuckle under. This is especially true in an era when children have been raised with so much self-esteem they expect adulation just for existing ('because I'm soooo awesome!'), and at their first employment, that not only should they receive immediate raises and promotions just for showing up, but that if they don't get it, their parents should call the employer to intercede. As a result, anything that doesn't validate the child's self-esteem in school--such as a C- for a paper that merits even lower marks--could trigger real trouble in a litigious society.

I'm glad I'm among those of my generation who chose not to be a parent, because I look on what my co-generationists accomplished and feel mainly contempt. Now they're getting into political leadership and they suck at that too. Fortunately, kids seem to turn out okay in every generation in spite of the parental currents of the day. Whether they will become decent parents when their turn comes, however, is another story. The kids of the sixties and seventies turned out to be quite productive members of society from a career standpoint, but as parents, many have a lot to answer for--starting with this idea that a third of our kids have syndromes, dysfunctions and disorders, and must be drugged in order to attend school in a properly compliant, ovine manner.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,174,825 times
Reputation: 16936
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Kids only fail to learn to think for themselves when parents, who may not know how to question assumptions themselves, a) do not teach them, and b) interfere with any attempt by schools to teach them. "Don't you dare teach my precious little Brittany that she might be descended from monkeys! That's against God, and if you go against God you will never have any peace from me--I will f*** you up!" In the end, it's easier for schools to just knuckle under. This is especially true in an era when children have been raised with so much self-esteem they expect adulation just for existing ('because I'm soooo awesome!'), and at their first employment, that not only should they receive immediate raises and promotions just for showing up, but that if they don't get it, their parents should call the employer to intercede. As a result, anything that doesn't validate the child's self-esteem in school--such as a C- for a paper that merits even lower marks--could trigger real trouble in a litigious society.

I'm glad I'm among those of my generation who chose not to be a parent, because I look on what my co-generationists accomplished and feel mainly contempt. Now they're getting into political leadership and they suck at that too. Fortunately, kids seem to turn out okay in every generation in spite of the parental currents of the day. Whether they will become decent parents when their turn comes, however, is another story. The kids of the sixties and seventies turned out to be quite productive members of society from a career standpoint, but as parents, many have a lot to answer for--starting with this idea that a third of our kids have syndromes, dysfunctions and disorders, and must be drugged in order to attend school in a properly compliant, ovine manner.
I'm so astonished at how the school circulium has been decimated over the years to fufil the tests that we must do now. Everything is aimed at kids doing well on the tests that rate the school. But in life you seldom have that experience. Things happen which aren't predictable or multiple choice. This terribly ill prepares kids for life.

When I was in high school one history class had the weekly debate. It was historically based and the arguments were to be fitting. You got assigned a side. Abolition of slavery, intependence, and other less major things were on the list. It was fascinating having to defend something you didn't believe in. But it taught you how to think. Every kid that had to do that should be grateful since today that would be so utterly un-PC we couldn't allow it.

I think we tend to revert back to our parents when it comes to raising kids. The problem with the boomers (and I am one) with their kids is they started to echo mom and dad. Mom and Dad had survived the Great Depression and the war and wanted life to be great and beautiful and stress free for their kids, to give them the childhood they didn't have. We were wrapped in cotton to be safe from distress. It was a terribls shock when we encountered the real world. I think those who didn't make it to the mcmansion didn't raise their kids like that because they couldn't afford to. But the boomers raised their kids with that same safety wrap, but now it included many many more toys. And the 50's were keeping up with the Joneses time. The kids who were conditioned to that just had more things to keep up with but were trying to be like mom and dad. Unforuntely on credit cards, unlike mom and dad.

My son went to live with his dad's family (not his dad) after we broke up so he'd have a decent father to copy and I couldn't afford him. I regret some of it but would still do it again. They had the money to have all the toys he now dreams of but he has shown nil amount of responsibility so I have a feeling unless he grows up quickly he'll not. Which might not be a bad thing for his kids...

The whole praise and positive thing is good in some ways, but bad in others. Its not good to tell a kid they are bad bad bad all the time, because they didn't fufill your expectations. If they did the best they could they deserve encouragement. But it was laid on so thick it turned into something which damaged them. And I'm sorry but... if you don't have time to spend with your kids, and raise them (not the neighbors, the school, the daycare, the friends, etc) don't have them. Parents got so busy they had to invent "quality time". This did not serve their children at all. If ever moment is special then ... what does special mean?

Given that our real world has turned rather mean and hard I think a lot of the kids who are waiting for that pat on the back will be waiting for quite a while. We will see who among them are the survivors and who are the ones that fade back in the shadows and blame someone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2010, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,569 posts, read 7,161,923 times
Reputation: 2637
The U.S. is too big to have a single culture
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2010, 04:50 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 3,857,884 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
I've asked what is 'American culture" many times in forums. To tell the truth, I don't know what is distinctly American. Friday night football games? Baseball? Picnics? Going to the lake on Labor Day?

A few things make America distinct from most countries: 1) It's a country formed of immigrants from across the globe; and 2) landwise, we're vast, so cultural distinctions vary by region.

I'm Native American of the Mvskoke (aka, Muscogee Creek) Tribe. We have ceremonies and cultural practices that pre-date the formation of America by many hundreds of years, as do all of the tribes in the U.S.

I'm sincerely curious as to what things you consider to be distinct American culture? Other than getting a drivers license at 16, what are those things that are 'passage of rite'? We have sweet sixteen parties, which I guess could be sort of like the Mexican girls' have La Quinceanera. (ugg, there should be a tilde above the 'n')

I also see many things in the American West that are distinctly American, but not all Americans. I live in Oklahoma; have lived in Montana and in Washington. Believe me, Cowboys and Indians is American. I love the American West. That is ours; all American.

If you don't think there are things that are distinctly American then why is that?
native Americans are Americas true culture, as they were here before we even formed the USA

but lettuce be real baseball, basketball,football, drivers license at 16 and big houses and everything big is American, in most countries especially Europe most people live in small houses or apartments, drive small cars or no car
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,855 posts, read 6,460,297 times
Reputation: 1699
SOME DEFINITIONS
  • Culture refers to the cumulative deposit of knowledge, experience, beliefs, values, attitudes, meanings, hierarchies, religion, notions of time, roles, spatial relations, concepts of the universe, and material objects and possessions acquired by a group of people in the course of generations through individual and group striving.
  • Culture is the systems of knowledge shared by a relatively large group of people.
  • Culture is communication, communication is culture.
  • Culture in its broadest sense is cultivated behavior; that is the totality of a person's learned, accumulated experience which is socially transmitted, or more briefly, behavior through social learning.
  • A culture is a way of life of a group of people--the behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next.

One thing which defines the culture of America is our more common sense outlook on certain societal restrictions, such as minimum age laws on drinking and sexual consent laws. I saw that one poster commented on the drinking laws in Germany, which are the same in the UK. After living in the UK for 8 years I can fully understand WHY we have a minimum age of 21 in most, if not all, states. The same goes for Age of Sexual Consent laws. In the United States we are more concerned with the negative affects alcohol and early sexual activity can have on a young, still growing body and minds that are not yet fully matured. American teenagers love the idea of going to Europe and being able to get drunk out of their minds LEGALLY and to have sex LEGALLY. But many mature American adults would be horrified if they witnessed the behavior of these young people, and the immature adults they consort with. I've personally seen women in their 70's going home with boys as young as 16, with both being witlessly drunk. I've seen 50 year old men run off with 16 year old girls. Sorry, but these kids should be in school during the day and home at night sleeping in their own beds. But this is part of European culture, which sets them widely apart from American culture. I have to disagree with the posters comment that European kids are more mature than American ones, and my British husband and American son (who attended the British school system) also disagree.

America still has a strong work ethic, but the UK has lost that in many areas of the country, where parents openly encourage their young daughters to 'have a bairn' by age 14 or 15 so they can get their own flat, and where sons are encouraged to get drunk and 'be a man.' Higher education is rarely expected or encouraged in many areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2010, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,440 posts, read 28,485,694 times
Reputation: 7472
Cyanna:

You're not that much older than I am. Both you and I grew up in Southern California.

All those things you talk about existing in Europe and not in the US existed in the US, at least Southern California, in a major way when we were young. Despite laws saying otherwise (California's had a 21 drinking age since Prohibition, and is one of the states with an age of consent of 18, common in western states although 17 is the most common age of consent in America. In other states it's 16 such as in your family's native New Jersey. )

What you consider to be an integral part of "American culture" was really a part of the whole social conservative paternalist backlash of the Reagan years. E.g. the 21 drinking age was the result of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act - social conservatives in the US government intruding upon states' rights. Prior to that states were free to set their own drinking ages without risking cutoffs of federal funds. E.g. California 's drinking age was 21 but Arizona's was 19.

This is one of many reasons why the drinking age to me is a more important issue than the age of consent. States set their own ages of consent to sexual activity, and that's how it should be. The Model Penal Code says that states should have an age of consent of 17, but it is merely a recommendation and not binding. However, states are no longer able to set their own drinking ages, which is an infringement upon states' rights. (Actually, going back to the original topic of the thread - federalism is something that distinguishes American culture from British culture, although Canada and Australia also have traditions of federalism. There is a strong tradition of states' rights in the US. Devolution's not the same thing as that can be abolished by an act of Parliament, while the US Congress could not pass an act that could make the US a unitary state.)

Before then the US and UK were very similar with regards to those issues in practice. Despite Thatcherism I don't think the social conservatives ever got the influence back in the UK that they got with Reagan in the US.

Everything you describe in the UK exists in the US as well, even today. Including in California where our "Bros" are like Britain's "Chavs". While UK kids' maturity level is similar to those of US kids (more cultural similarity), it goes without saying that kids in Continental Europe have a much higher maturity level. For example, Italian teenagers have a higher maturity level than US teenagers or UK teenagers, and perhaps as high as that of US adults....

Last edited by majoun; 09-11-2010 at 06:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2010, 08:17 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 3,857,884 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
One thing which defines the culture of America is our more common sense outlook on certain societal restrictions, such as minimum age laws on drinking and sexual consent laws. I saw that one poster commented on the drinking laws in Germany, which are the same in the UK. After living in the UK for 8 years I can fully understand WHY we have a minimum age of 21 in most, if not all, states. The same goes for Age of Sexual Consent laws. In the United States we are more concerned with the negative affects alcohol and early sexual activity can have on a young, still growing body and minds that are not yet fully matured. American teenagers love the idea of going to Europe and being able to get drunk out of their minds LEGALLY and to have sex LEGALLY. But many mature American adults would be horrified if they witnessed the behavior of these young people, and the immature adults they consort with. I've personally seen women in their 70's going home with boys as young as 16, with both being witlessly drunk. I've seen 50 year old men run off with 16 year old girls. Sorry, but these kids should be in school during the day and home at night sleeping in their own beds. But this is part of European culture, which sets them widely apart from American culture. I have to disagree with the posters comment that European kids are more mature than American ones, and my British husband and American son (who attended the British school system) also disagree.
German kids are more mature than kids in Miami fl USA, i know cause i just finished school and hung out with some German kids in germany visiting family

also the drinking age at 21 causes many binge drinking deaths and alot of irresponsibility in the US, i know of 3 people who died cause of alchohol, why? cause they thought it was "cool" to get **** drunk,drive, and do other dumb ****

most Germans drink responsibly and socially even at bars, the friends make sure everyone is ok, trust me on this, not like in the US

age of consent in fl is 17, yet i knew of 14 yearolds going out with 20year olds
and 16 yearolds going out with 30's

and about 2 weeks ago not far from where i live a guy 23, killed his 15 year old gf and then killed himself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2010, 08:56 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,540,710 times
Reputation: 18301
Bascailly there is no one american culture. It chnages drastically with region and even urban to sub-burbs and more with rural.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top