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Old 10-15-2010, 10:54 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,089,265 times
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They might have done some fishing and built some shack to smoke chipmunks, but they did not discovered a thing and they did not colonize a thing and they did not claim a thing. They probably tried to mess with Indians, but prowling pirates are no consquistadors and probably Indians kicked them out. They probably thought they were hobos from somewhere. Of course, that would be if the place is not a hoax.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,560 posts, read 14,399,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
As to Colombus, many Black Legend were created against him by his enemies, and even if he was a monster, he's still the FORMAL DISCOVERER of America (not a hoax, not a pirate tale, no Mickey Mouse sagas of heatenish illiterate non-European barbarians from Hiperborea).
Oh, good lord, not this Black Legend-related Spanish persecution complex garbage again. Spain's explorers and conquistadores get bad press because they earned it and they deserve it. Sure, they were products of their times--in general, the most intolerant, cruel and greedy products of their times. Worst colonialist fate an American native could face, hands down, was the Spaniards taking over.

Don't forget that Columbus never landed in North America at all, evidently never even sighted its land. If you want to honor him as the 'discoverer' of the Bahamas, I'm good with that.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,919 posts, read 24,186,018 times
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Manolón: Your puerile and immature description of the Norse reduces you credibility in everything else you might say. Your insistence that L'Anse aux Meadows (The Norse site in Newfoundland) is a hoax just makes it even worse because it means you are at odds with the entire scientific community. No legitimate scientist denies L'Anse aux Meadows. I can only assume your prejudice is racial or political.

You have said sensible things in other threads, but maybe I only thought you were being sensible. I guess your opinion just does not carry any weight. Thus you can save yourself time and stop posting here.
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Old 10-16-2010, 06:12 AM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,089,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Oh, good lord, not this Black Legend-related Spanish persecution complex garbage again. Spain's explorers and conquistadores get bad press because they earned it and they deserve it. Sure, they were products of their times--in general, the most intolerant, cruel and greedy products of their times. Worst colonialist fate an American native could face, hands down, was the Spaniards taking over.

Don't forget that Columbus never landed in North America at all, evidently never even sighted its land. If you want to honor him as the 'discoverer' of the Bahamas, I'm good with that.
________________

Columbus is the discoverer of America, including North America.
I don't think they were the most intolerant, cruel and greedy products of their times, they just were in the precise time and place.
I don't think that any European power would have acted differently.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Aloverton
6,560 posts, read 14,399,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
________________

Columbus is the discoverer of America, including North America.
I don't think they were the most intolerant, cruel and greedy products of their times, they just were in the precise time and place.
I don't think that any European power would have acted differently.
'America' is two continents connected by a subcontinent. Its landmass extends from the high Arctic to Tierra del Fuego. The Vikings beat him by centuries, and so probably did others. Calling him the discoverer of America is a gross ignorance.

Oh, but they were the most intolerant, cruel and greedy of the colonial powers. There was no colonial cruelty quite like the Spanish version, none quite as insistent upon forced conversion and slave labor unto the grave.

Every nation has its national myopias. Spain's centers around this particular period. I don't understand the desire to edit and warp history at all, but every culture seems to do it in some way, just as American Indians insist on their own mythologies as history, and just as some Southerners torture history (medieval Spanish style) until it confesses the nobility and rightness of the war they started in order to continue enslaving blacks. In any case, I'm not buying it, tolerant of it or kowtowing to it. Spain manifestly built a tremendous empire, but its hired sailor didn't 'discover' America or North America, and his arrival in the area heralded the very, very worst, most rapaciously exploitative cruelty Europeans would launch in the New World. While some other European powers would have liked to be as intolerant, extractive and cruel as the Spaniards, none achieved the Spanish pinnacle.
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:17 PM
 
1,530 posts, read 3,930,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolón View Post
________________

Columbus is the discoverer of America, including North America.
I don't think they were the most intolerant, cruel and greedy products of their times, they just were in the precise time and place.
I don't think that any European power would have acted differently.
really>? columbus didnt discover anything 1st of all and well check out this video it says it all


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu92AjC-pDc
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 25,085,235 times
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The Spanish were "plunderers" just as much as thre Vikings.
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Old 10-17-2010, 08:55 AM
 
13,134 posts, read 40,510,613 times
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Do they (Laguna/Acoma indians) still cut off the foot of Onate on his statue in northern New Mexico?
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:18 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,089,265 times
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Spain manifestly built a tremendous empire, but its hired sailor didn't 'discover' America or North America, and his arrival in the area heralded the very, very worst, most rapaciously exploitative cruelty Europeans would launch in the New World. While some other European powers would have liked to be as intolerant, extractive and cruel as the Spaniards, none achieved the Spanish pinnacle.
-----

No European power achieved the Castillian (not Spanish) pinnacle because Castille discovered America. Yes, he was a hired sailor, so what?

If the English would have discovered America, they would have exterminated all Indians right away. They committed genocide in every one of their colonies. They even went to the extent of exterminating white people, such as the HOLOCAUST they perpretated on the BOERS, or the HOLOCAUST they perpetrated against the IRISH people, just to name just one of many.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:23 PM
 
2,226 posts, read 5,089,265 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Do they (Laguna/Acoma indians) still cut off the foot of Onate on his statue in northern New Mexico?

-----

Do you know that Oñate died in Guadalcanal?
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