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View Poll Results: What was the most savage and brutal civilization in history?
Mongol Empire/Huns 25 20.16%
Ancient Egypt 0 0%
Aztec Empire 9 7.26%
Roman Empire 10 8.06%
Ancient Islamic caliphate 3 2.42%
Imperial Japan 13 10.48%
Nazi Germany 33 26.61%
Soviet Union 13 10.48%
modern Islamic Middle East (incl Taliban, Saudi Arabia, Iran) 11 8.87%
Communist China 5 4.03%
North Korea 2 1.61%
Voters: 124. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 10-23-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Earth
12,270 posts, read 14,341,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtx View Post
What about the onsite Nursery school?
They did deliberately seek to kill as many people as possible - that was one of their aims.
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
39,892 posts, read 42,604,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I think the Taliban were also an exceptionally brutal movement as was the culture they enforced in Afghanistan. They were just too weak to expand, but their desire was to rebuild the Islamic caliphate. The Taliban stoned women to death in public executions for suspected adultery, just like Iran now. .
Quantitatively, the number of people executed in Islamic countries for perceived crimes is not significantly different from the number of people executed in The United States of America for perceived crimes. And in fact, the USA has judicially and punitively incarcerated a higher proportion of its population than any other country on earth, Islamic countries included.

Unless you can show that executions are considerably more widespread in one country than the other, you'll need to tar them both with the same brush.
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
39,892 posts, read 42,604,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
They did deliberately seek to kill as many people as possible - that was one of their aims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtx View Post
What about the onsite Nursery school?
Yeah, right. They said "Hey, I know where we can kill a lot of babies. We'll bomb the World Trade Center, which might have a nursery school!"

Of course, we were careful to make sure there were no nursery schools in Hiroshima or Dresden, in order to avoid the accusation that "one of our aims" in those raids was "to kill as many people as possible".

Given that the WTC was a highly logical target, I hereby accuse the United States of placing babies in the nursery school there as human shields. Your turn.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-23-2010 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 10-23-2010, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Oopsland
605 posts, read 386,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
What was the most savage civilization in history?
You forgot the US in your list.

Anyway, I voted for Japan. There used to be some other savage civilizations, but this one is very 'underrated'.
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:22 AM
 
1 posts, read 248 times
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JAPAN in terms of savageness and pervasiveness to many other countries.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:06 AM
 
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I'd draw a line between ancient civilizations and modern ones. Around 1800 or so, maybe 1900. Before 1800, ideas about natural rights had not gained much currency. Without natural rights, savagery violates nothing except the fear of it happening to me. It is just way to exercise power, not much different than the divine right of kings. There is no basis to condemn it.

Regimes after 1900, Western ones anyway, have to be judged by the natural rights standard. By then it had won the day in all lands west of the Rhine and was making headway east of it, too.

Aztecs must have felt what they did was wrong or bad in some way or another, but there was no philosophical standard to prove it wrong. 1930's Germans knew what they did was wrong and why it was wrong. That's the difference. As far as I'm concerned anyway.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
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In many ways the real question is "what civilization was most demonized by it's conquerors?". We know very little about many of the civilizations on the list other than what was written down by the victors, who were frequently trying to justify their own savagery (the Vikings and Mongols are prime examples of this).

In modern times I don't think any civilization can compare to Nazi Germany. Building a complex infrastructure for the express purpose of slaughtering millions of people is extraordinarily savage. Even the savagery of the Khmer Rouge or Mao's Cultural Revolution had a supposed purpose beyond the slaughter and extermination of entire classes of people.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:15 AM
 
5,180 posts, read 6,352,608 times
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The USA can not in any way be considered the most savage society.

The USA may have the greatest number of savage individuals but that's what it comes down to. The savagery Granted I don't think that its still only individuals to blame in Nazi Germany (or Soviet Union or Imperial Japan) as everyone was forced to give the salute, boys were forced to join Hitler youth, etc., etc. The fact that criticism and self loathing goes on to the extent that it does and people have every right is proof plenty that the US is NOT the most savage society.

Because from the very beginning, settlers settled down WITH the natives. When the ship took too long to get back to Roanoke island with supplies, they joined native society. The French fur traders and trappers which had a big influence on the US in many ways (although not like Canada) and just wanted to make money trading guns for furs to sell back to Europe. There are countless, countless white settlers that lived amongst natives. The vast majority of natives were killed off by disease. Today six western states have Native % populations of at least 5%.

The US wanted to stay out of WWII until Pearl Harbor got bombed. The Cold War is harder to defend, but all these countries that were destroyed in the war WANTED a superpower to finance their recovery to rebuild and then protect them from Communism.

The savagery that occurred in the US was a savagery of individualism taking general ideas and taking them to a savage extreme. In those other "civilizations" the savagery was POLICY and PHILOSOPHY.

I could go on, but you get the picture.

This Cracked article I think explains it well:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19864...merica_p2.html
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
3,189 posts, read 1,097,547 times
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OP should have offered the United States as an option in the poll
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
4,716 posts, read 5,516,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
I'd draw a line between ancient civilizations and modern ones. Around 1800 or so, maybe 1900. Before 1800, ideas about natural rights had not gained much currency. Without natural rights, savagery violates nothing except the fear of it happening to me. It is just way to exercise power, not much different than the divine right of kings. There is no basis to condemn it.

Regimes after 1900, Western ones anyway, have to be judged by the natural rights standard. By then it had won the day in all lands west of the Rhine and was making headway east of it, too.

Aztecs must have felt what they did was wrong or bad in some way or another, but there was no philosophical standard to prove it wrong. 1930's Germans knew what they did was wrong and why it was wrong. That's the difference. As far as I'm concerned anyway.
While I still voted for the Mongols (they burned entire cities to the ground and killed all the people), you make a good point.
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