Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Without proper air cover, battleships, no matter how big, are sitting ducks. Air power was the deciding factor - which is why the US built only 4 Iowa class battleships but 24 Essex class aircraft carriers (in addition to scores of smaller escort carriers).
Don't forget the light carriers (CVL's) as well. Nearly all of them were built on Cleveland-class light cruiser hulls, and had the speed to keep up with other warships. In fact, one of the major carrier task forces - I forget which one - was composed of six Essex-class carriers and six Independence-class light carriers. Independence class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The escort carriers (CVE's) were built on merchantman or tanker hulls, and were intended for inclusion with convoys, or to provide antisubmarine air patrols. Escort carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By far the most famous escort carriers were those that made up Taffy 3. In the Battle off Samar, part of the Leyte Gulf campaign, they suddenly found themselves taking fire from Admiral Kurita's entire naval group, including the battleship Yamato.
Of special note were the Gambier Bay, the St. Lo, and the Kalinin Bay, as they were closest to Kurita's ships. Gambier Bay was sunk by naval gunfire, and St. Lo was sunk by aerial bombs. The spunky Kalinin Bay started shooting back with her 5-inch guns, scoring several hits. She was repeatedly struck by fire from battleships and heavy cruisers, barely escaping with her life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarbles
What are Japanese historians thinking? Probably "why the hell did we start a war we had no hope of winning?"
Actually, Admiral Yamamoto strongly advised against attacking the United States. He had spent a lot of time in the US as a naval attache, and knew first-hand the determination and resources America would employ. Part of his strongly expressed concern was the statement, "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."
When advised of the success of the Pearl Harbor raid, he said,"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
Don't forget the light carriers (CVL's) as well. Nearly all of them were built on Cleveland-class light cruiser hulls, and had the speed to keep up with other warships. In fact, one of the major carrier task forces - I forget which one - was composed of six Essex-class carriers and six Independence-class light carriers. Independence class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The escort carriers (CVE's) were built on merchantman or tanker hulls, and were intended for inclusion with convoys, or to provide antisubmarine air patrols. Escort carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By far the most famous escort carriers were those that made up Taffy 3. In the Battle off Samar, part of the Leyte Gulf campaign, they suddenly found themselves taking fire from Admiral Kurita's entire naval group, including the battleship Yamato.
Of special note were the Gambier Bay, the St. Lo, and the Kalinin Bay, as they were closest to Kurita's ships. Gambier Bay was sunk by naval gunfire, and St. Lo was sunk by aerial bombs. The spunky Kalinin Bay started shooting back with her 5-inch guns, scoring several hits. She was repeatedly struck by fire from battleships and heavy cruisers, barely escaping with her life.
Actually, Admiral Yamamoto strongly advised against attacking the United States. He had spent a lot of time in the US as a naval attache, and knew first-hand the determination and resources America would employ. Part of his strongly expressed concern was the statement, "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."
When advised of the success of the Pearl Harbor raid, he said,"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
I am not aware of his "running wild and winning victory after victory." In fact, I am not aware of any remarkable success that Yamamoto enjoyed after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, his exploits looked mostly like screw-ups to me.
He had the biggest, baddest battleship in the world. Fired it a couple times, sunk a destroyer while fleeing the battle scene. A scene where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. A defeat that would not have happened if Yamamoto had stayed put and fought.
I am not aware of his "running wild and winning victory after victory." In fact, I am not aware of any remarkable success that Yamamoto enjoyed after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, his exploits looked mostly like screw-ups to me.
He had the biggest, baddest battleship in the world. Fired it a couple times, sunk a destroyer while fleeing the battle scene. A scene where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. A defeat that would not have happened if Yamamoto had stayed put and fought.
Um, Yamamoto was killed a year and a half prior to Leyte.
I am not aware of his "running wild and winning victory after victory." In fact, I am not aware of any remarkable success that Yamamoto enjoyed after Pearl Harbor. Indeed, his exploits looked mostly like screw-ups to me.
Then, may I suggest that you read some detailed histories of the IJN naval operations beginning December 7/8 1941 (depending on which side of the International Date Line the incidents/actions occurred) all the way through the Allies' decimation and bypassing of the IJN base at Rabaul.
Beginning in December of 1941, the IJN did indeed "run wild and win victory after victory," even after their crushing defeat at Midway and the Aleutian Islands. How else, do you suppose, that the waters around Guadalcanal became known as "Ironbottom Sound?" Yep, the bottom was littered with a LOT of American Navy "iron" - cruisers and destroyers in particular - in October-November of 1942.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHAdams
He had the biggest, baddest battleship in the world. Fired it a couple times, sunk a destroyer while fleeing the battle scene. A scene where defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory. A defeat that would not have happened if Yamamoto had stayed put and fought.
Once again, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto was killed on April 18, 1943 when the airplane in which he was a passenger was shot down by a flight of American P-38 Lightnings. The battle to which you refer took place quite some time later.
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 02-24-2011 at 09:07 PM..
I'd like to thank my fellow posters for sharing their knowledge and expertise in this thread.......it's turned out much more interesting than I anticipated!
A quick note -- my barber, from the late 1950's through the late 1980's, served aboard the heavy cruiser USS Portland throughout the war. His battle station was one of the open-mount 5-inch guns on her port side, so he was an eyewitness to most of the major sea battles.
His scariest moment, according to him, was during one of the night battles near Guadalcanal. Portland took a hit aft, which took out two of her props and jammed her rudder. She could only circle to starboard. This brought the cruiser straight into the guns of the IJN battleship Hiei. Fortunately, Hiei was unable to sufficiently depress her main battery, so all of the shells went over Portland and into the water some distance away.
Sentimentality aside, one has to admit that the upgrade of the Iowas was a waste of money.
The Iowa's countered the Soviets and help win the Cold War saving you and other taxpayers money...the Fleet is now at 300 ships instead of 600 ships...peace through superior firepower 50 years of service from these old ladies of the seas and their brave crews i say we got our monies worth.I would feel better knowing a Iowa class battleship was behind my son or daughter storming a beach
Hmm ... is it just me or does the Star Destroyers mast superstructure in the movie ''The Empire Strikes Back'' looks similar to the Battleships mast superstructure?
Note: that was me who just gave you a rep here as i forgot to sign it
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
50 years of service from these old ladies of the seas and their brave crews i say we got our monies worth.I would feel better knowing a Iowa class battleship was behind my son or daughter storming a beach 
